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 CNC Router Build 
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Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:45 am
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Location: Merritt Island, Florida, Estates Unitas
Post Re: CNC Router Build
Sorry for being away so long. The router is looking awesome. So epoxy concrete has no portland cement and is just epoxy and little rocks? Very cool idea. In addition to greatly reducing the amount of epoxy needed, I imagine all the rocks take up some of the excess heat generated as the epoxy hardens?

Edward, Thats a beautiful P/T head even if the pan is going the wrong way around. Is the arm attaching to the side of it a part of an X-Y-Z type motion control rig? Its different from the crane style we've all gotten used to seeing. What does the rest of it look like? I'd be interested in seeing its similarities and differences from JackRipper/Biolapse's Otto rig.

Nice wall of drawers workshop. I like that. So much storage in almost no footprint. I've used the junkyard version made from discarded dressers with the feet removed and stacked three high. Actually making a wall where all the drawers look alike is a lot more appealing. I should have done that instead.


Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:05 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi SL,

I don't have other pics at the moment, but the whole idea was to be able to use it for both video AND stills by quickly swapping mounts, so for instance in the picture below I am using a Leaf Credo digital back mounted on a specially made camera made out of bits and pieces (bellows from Arca Swiss, adapted front and rear standard partly Cambo, partly machined by me). The lenses are Schneider with digital shutters. The focussing on the still camera is also motion controlled as well as having automatic distance image bracketing. The still camera tilts with a harmonic drive built into the fitting too, it's concealed behind the cross arm. I'll do anything to make my shooting as comfortable and effortless as possible:)

So you can simply unscrew the two M8 bolts and swap one head for another in a couple of minutes.

The rig is similar to a large studio stand, i.e. like the Foba, (it looks like a cross) but on track, so it all moves back and forth on Hiwin rails and of course it's immensely smoother than a camera stand:)

The cross arm shown in the picture retracts by approx 3ft. on an array of 50mm curved wheels fitted to a 7ft column, so it goes up and down to practically ceiling height. Basically it does everything a conventional crane does, but the arm movement is horizontal/vertical (so no yoke with pivoting arm).

This has replaced my Foba studio stand.

Edward

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Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:26 am
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Location: Merritt Island, Florida, Estates Unitas
Post Re: CNC Router Build
Thanks for the peek at the rig. Totally stunning! You MOCO'd your view camera! This is cooler than anything I even imagined could exist. Amazing job of putting it all together. The cross shaped rig is interesting. Definitely not the typical crane on a track configuration. It must make programming linear motion a lot easier since you don't need to dolly in order to compensate for a crane's natural arc shaped path. My own realtime rig has been on hold for a while now because of a new focus motor project and rebuilding a 42 year old luxury yacht so I can see the Bahamas again. Hopefully I will get back to that after the summer has ended.

I used to love my view cameras. I had a speed graphic 4x5 and a Calumet C-1 8x10 when I was in college. I even got away with using them in grad school. My lab was light-proof and no one used it but me, so I had a huge 8x10 enlarger parked in a corner. I could roll it out on weekends and make some big prints without disturbing anything I was supposed to be working on. I think digital has put an end to those things although I still keep them in a closet in my house. I suppose those leaf backs could be adapted to my Kiev88 (Hasselbladski) but most of my work these days involves making video at night, so even the Canons have taken a back seat to Sony.


Thu Jun 22, 2017 8:00 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Timescapes used to be such a helpful forum for exchanging info on all things photographic and MOCO. I understand that timelapse is a fad which gets discovered once per generation like the original Disney feature length cartoons. It was inevitable that the huge following would dwindle a bit as the craze wore off, but I did expect that there would be some core group with an interest in timelapse and stopmotion animation. The manufacturers forums (Dragonframe, eMotimo, etc.) really are not like Timescapes. There are some occasional posts but not the kind of informative discussions seen here.

So its been a week since my last post here. Now I'm, posting this just to keep the list of active topics from going to zero.

Sound of the wind......Somewhere in the distance, a dog barks, followed by more wind noise. A tumbleweed rolls by.

And thats just it for us.


Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:35 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Interesting SL. I guess the craze has worn off due to saturation? It's so easy for anyone to shoot some timelapse, it's lost the novelty value. If I see timelapse these days I kind of go ho hum... However - as for motion control - that's still interesting... :)


Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:40 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
I think this timelapse thing was a bit of a fad. Same with sliders, everybody and their dog has a slider.

I am more interested in real time motion control and what you can do with it within the confines of a small studio. Maybe that's a fad too:) Making CNC routers and milling machines is probably a fad too.

Motion control is so challenging to get right that only the most dedicated people persevere, so it's quite niche. In my case, I have been able to put it to good use with the rig shown a couple of posts above. At least I use it almost every day with my still life, so it's not just the fun of making the machine, but also the practical use of it after it is made. I am already planning the next one which will improve on my previous one.

SL, you mentioned view cameras and I have a collection of Sinar 5x4 and 10x8 view cameras gathering dust in my storage depot. I used to shoot all my commercial work on 10x8 transparencies. Those were the days when photography was a craft and you had to get everything right for the shoot, otherwise it would cost you a lot in Polaroids, film, processing and bike couriers.

Then digital came along and that was great for a while at the beginning. When digital became mainstream and every Tom, Dick and Harry knew about what it is possible to do with Photoshop, and how cheap it is to shoot and re-shot, that was the beginning of the end as far as many professional photographers were concerned.

You have people in the business knowing very little in charge of making incessant changes and modifications in post, most often to the detriment of the initial work. This has somehow killed the fun for me, although I still think all the digital advances are fantastic, nothing wrong with that. You can still make good money, but the demands of somebody else's idea of perfection are so vast and time consuming that you start to wonder why the hell you are doing this when there are so many other things around you that can bring greater personal gratification.

Making machines for yourself is very gratifying and I hope that if we continue to post now and then it may encourage some people to make their own rigs and benefit from the shared experience of other posters.

Edward


Thu Jun 29, 2017 1:09 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Howdy all,

I've personally gone through that initial excitement of having a motion control timelapse setup where I've shots a bunch of loosely related shots. That was a several years back now. Since then I've build a system which can do repeat moves and limited real time. Being able to construct something from scratch was part of the excitement and achievement. Now I've moved onto using the gear in my latest project which has been going for 2 years now which has a story which guides the shots. Sure it's still a bunch of timelapse shots but it has a story this time. Being set in a relatively remote location slows things down but I'll get there. Crazy thing is this is all part of me doing short movies to accompany my music which is (supposedly) what I'm meant to be doing most of time. All fun though.

I gather lots of people who've built systems have moved onto something else because their real interest was the build and not the useful piece of gear they'd built. Just because all this technology is affordable compared to a decade ago doesn't me there's suddenly going to be more films and film makers. Not that I've checked this statistically.

I said my system was finished but I came back from doing a multipass test shot here at home to find its misaligned. Time to put in some type of position locators of some sort ?

Steve.

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Sat Jul 01, 2017 9:27 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hello all been a while i have been in Land Rover world trying to breath life back into old one and finally got new one :D
[flickr]Image2017-07-02 18.07.53 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
So next big project will be demountable camper . Which i think is to off topic even for this thread so will have to find another camper related forum somewhere i think.
Still i will need to get router finished first as a lot of the camper parts will be made on it . No progress i am afraid hoping to get back on it next week then as i have said before that might be it for this forum . Which is a shame as its been very helpful but just not enough chat these days .
Think we all like making things and enjoy the challenge but when it gets to easy and over saturated then the challenge is gone and i have no interest . I have a feeling Drones are rapidly going that way to ( Soz Mike ) . Take this for example

To quote Gerald i get a overwhelming Ho Hum going on . Off shelve DJI Phantom and warp stabilizer, far to easy . I feel sorry for the likes of Dan Eckert who started the hyperlapse thing without the help of AE i think.
D1


Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:10 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
D1,
I see no problem with you talking about your camper on this forum. It has nothing to do with timelapse but the forum has brought together a group of like-minded people from all over the world who enjoy making all sorts of different things and I'd be sorry to lose contact with everyone. We've also managed to stay remarkably spam-free.

I have no idea how long Tom intends to continue managing/funding the web space but while it's here, lets enjoy it!

One of the failings of most of the timelapse videos we've seen on the site is that they stand alone as a neat bit of video but don't form part of a complete story. "Look what I can do with my new toy" isn't going to sustain interest for long either in the maker or the viewer. Timelapse has it's place in the range of tools available to a film maker but it needs to be used in context as part of something more engaging.
I actually like that drone example you showed: it has some interesting editting which fits well with the music and the timelapse really shows up the patterns of movement of the kiteboards.

Kit

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Sun Jul 02, 2017 4:02 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Kit i agree the drone clip is interesting but i can guarantee their will be hundreds like it within a short period of time .Because it is relatively easy to do. Then you have the problem of how do you sort the wheat from the chaff . Iam sure their are still some really nice timelapses out their but i haven't time to search through the shear volume . Even the timelapse show case on this forum got a bit ho hum quite a while ago and i seldom look at it .
Been having a look for a suitable camper forum and the ones i have found seem to be arguing with each other . Not a good start so if a picture of a land rover with a big box on the back of it turns up dont be surprised :D
D1


Sun Jul 02, 2017 11:35 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
A big box on a land rover would interest me as well. Preferably with pictures of the routed parts and a timelapse of you fastening them together to make something please. Kit is right about this becoming a social meeting place for nerds with an interest in photography or cinema.

I also got burnt out with the showcase, but that was when there were a hundred visits to the site every day and a dozen new timelapses such as "My First Attempt With Nothing Edited Out", "The Place Where I live Looks Cool When Timelapsed", and who could possibly forget "A Whole Day Of Traffic You Can Watch In Only A Half Hour At An Intersection Where Nothing Happens". But we're free again. Nobody is posting anything in showcase now. This means that any (hopefully interesting) clips we post now will not be buried in a huge, steaming pile of (other peoples art which they worked very hard to produce).

I like the idea of shooting video to accompany your music. This sounds a lot more interesting than other music videos which look like the band showed up one morning with no idea what they wanted, told the director to "just go for it" and shot something in a few hours before hitting the pub. I also like video with timelapse which tells a story. Even some badass MOCO moves while timelapsing or stopomotion would be nice. Text, pictures or video about making rigs, armatures or making the tools needed to make something else are all good. My point is that serious work can now be posted on showcase without being buried in a list so long that nobody wants to sort through it.

So I have been as guilty as anyone for getting on with my life and not posting. I have been busy with other things, but I have been shooting. I had intended to hide all this for a year before beginning a new Youtube channel called "Nine Hundred Dollar Luxury Yacht". The first episode is planned to be a teaser showing clips from an extended cruise through the Caribbean and a little about building the boat. The stuff I shot so far would become the first few episodes starting with episode two about cleaning the inside of a 42 year old boat that had spent the last decade sitting in the back yard of a guy who says he is the cousin of an astronaut. Subsequent episodes depict the transformation from a small daysailer on a trailer into a tiny house where I can live rent-free while cruising the Caribbean. I guess there is no harm in sharing the process of shooting the new youtube stuff. I'll benefit from any feedback given on this forum and the final results will no doubt be better than if I did it all in a vacuum.


Mon Jul 03, 2017 11:26 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
I've just watched your videos James and I found them fascinating. A wonderful method of documenting to show others and a record for yourself.

I try to make records of my projects but mostly text and photos. I did make one video about a keyboard rack I built. It took quite a time to get all the video together as it's more of a assembled piece of other peoples pictures but it did have one timelapse of me soldering. Maybe I should try doing videos showing the different processes ?

I use my 3040 router for creating printed circuit boards and project cases mostly. I've made several small electronic music units for myself and others and not to mention parts for my timelapse rig. Here's where I "blog" them - http://amongstprojects.blogspot.com.au/

Steve

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Mon Jul 03, 2017 2:18 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Great to see what people are up to:

Not many people will be building a camper from scratch with the aid of a CNC router and mill so that will be an interesting project to follow. One thing we just don't see here is people arguing with each other. Fingers crossed it stays that way.

We now have to learn a whole new vocabulary to understand Steve's blog, though I do remember some of the acronyms from reading about synthesisers as a teenager back in the 70's, and James is going to make us all madly jealous once all his hard work pays off and we see him lazing on the shore of a deserted Carribean island or two.

I started work on a wooden clock some time ago but have only recently persuded it to run reliably and hence tidied it up and made it presentable. Wooden clocks are very adictive once you start looking closely at them and though some people enjoy the repetitive hand cutting of all the gears, that isn't for me! I find being able to design a set of wheels in Gearotic, modify the design in CamBam and cut them out with the machine I built via LinuxCNC very satisfying. heres the vid (time without the lapse, ha ha).

Kit


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Mon Jul 03, 2017 4:57 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Beautiful work Kit. I once considered making / routing an orrery being an astronomy nut. Maybe one day.

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Mon Jul 03, 2017 5:23 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Thanks Steve, I also visited your site. I had followed your dolly build but hadn't realized you built all those instruments. The finish on all that stuff is amazing. Did you make all those control panels? The lettering and graphics on the panels is awesome. How did you do them? Our panels are very crude by comparison. Synthesizers are cool and I haven't seen a Theramin in a while, except for one that appeared in an episode of a television series called "weeds" which was very popular here several years ago.

Kit, the clock is amazing. You're right about it having some sort of hypnotic effect. Probably much more so once you start actually building them. The way the double pendulums are coupled with a little section of gear teeth, and the way the two little pawls catch the ratchet-like teeth is fascinating to watch. I'm also amazed by the gear reduction taking place. When I was very young, my grandfather had a cuckoo clock which was driven by weights. I hadn't thought about it before, but you must have some really good bearings to let the weight drive all that stuff so smoothly and without a bushing or bearing binding somewhere. If you make another one, a timelapse of the process would be very cool.


Tue Jul 04, 2017 7:01 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Thanks for the kind compliments James.

The panel on the Therematron which is black text on white is actually composite aluminium panel. The product name of the stuff I use is Signbond. It's two pieces of 0.5mm aluminium with plastic (type?) sandwiched in the middle. So the black you see is actually the plastic layer showing through the front layer of aluminium. I use a slow method of 0.2mm engraver to do an initial cut into the material and then I use a 0.5mm endmill. I tried on several occasions to use just the 0.5mm but the aluminium is too strong and broke the bit. The composite panel is nice to work with for this sort of use because it's light. It's not overly cheap here being about the same price as acrylic. Overall it's a good option for me.

Another panel you may have seen on my projects blog is a blue one. This was made when I worked at a printing company that has a flatbed printer. Flatbeds are very nice machines. They use a UV cured ink and as the name suggests you lay down your print material onto a flatbed and the print head moves over the top. The one this company had also contained a white ink. Again using the composite material but just printed onto. The only caveat was I had to drill the holes on the panel by hand after the print was done. I can achieve a smaller text size with the printing but in reality the front panel components control the sizing of the layout and the engraved front panel is fine for the job plus the router does the holes for me as well.

I'm very happy to have found a method for doing front panels as they certainly finish off a project nicely.

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Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:10 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
James,
Clocks do have a fascination all of their own, they definately come under the umbrella of 'kinetic sculpture' but it's also nice to have something functional as well. Wooden clocks are not usually at all acurate but, being me, I'm currently working on an electrically driven, GPS locked design which will be as hypnotic as this one but also tell the correct time to within one second for ( I hope) ten years without much attention. I'm writing Arduino software for it at at the moment but will publish some details when I actually get something moving.

Unlike most forms of motor where the prime mover is geared down in speed, thus increasing the torque, clocks work the other way so that around 2Kg/cm of torque at the weight drum is reduced to a few grammes at the escapement. This makes a low friction design essential. Many designs use brass rods in plain wood bearings but after I failed to get this to work I rebilt the frame of my clock to use ball bearings on every shaft. These were non-sealed types (the sealed ones have rubber rings which tend to drag on the inner race) which were first soaked in solvent to remove the grease which also adds to the drag. This is not a problem for such a low speed application indoors. As you can see it paid off.

Regarding engraving panels: for the Roman numerals on the clock I used the 'V-Engrave' plugin for CamBam v1.0 with a 'v' shaped tool in the spindle having an angle of 22.5 degrees, originally intended for making PCBs. The result was very effective for producing such fine lettering. One trick I have used already on a wooden panel is to slap on a thick layer of polyeurethane varnish to seal the wood, use the 'V engrave' tool ( with a 90 degree bit) to carve out text on the panel, spray the whole thing with gold paint and then sand back the flat surface leaving the grain of the wood with gold lettering engraved into it. Varnish again and the result looks great for not a lot of effort! Perfect for the name plate of your boat, James.

Kit

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Thu Jul 06, 2017 4:50 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Well its really nice to see everybody's projects . The boat as very similar problems to my snail house (demountable camper ) Small space but a need for certain luxury's my last van had a microwave and fridge so i could have cold beers and hot pies vegetarian of course :D Quite a good sound system to.
Always fancied making a orrery to but well down the list perhaps ya could build a theremin into one that would be fun . And kits clock i could watch all day .
So timelapse may be on the back burner but we haven't given up yet i get the impression. Speaking back burners i hope to get my aluminium furnace up and running before end of year just so i can consolidate all my bits of ali off cuts .
D1


Thu Jul 06, 2017 12:55 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
I've been wanting to take aluminium smelting of the back burner for a while as well but the bush fire risk here is a problem for a flaming furnace. I've been thinking about using a chinese induction heater fo warming up a very well insulated graphite crucible (max power from an Aussie wall socket = 2.4kW so the heat loss has to be minimal). I tried using Perlite granules bonded with Sodium Silicate to make the high temperature insulation (it is used industrially) but my first attempt refused to set fully and resembled fruit cake in texture, which was not convinving!

I need to try making a new batch of Sodium Silicate and a better CO2 generator to see if that was the problem. It would be nice to cast a few bits and then machine them on my little lathe.

Kit

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Thu Jul 06, 2017 6:04 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Kit my blacksmith mate as a couple of those induction heaters infact he used to import and sell them on . Almost like magic when you use one not sure how big a crucible ya could get in one . I will try and get my gas alternative running so i can do slightly larger volume .I was going to try the perlite mix to wonder why yours didnt harden up ?
Back on topic sort of been running the axis i have working . Slight prob on pc front just cant get a nice constant clock speed and the pc is exactly same as old one.

[flickr]Image2017-07-07 15.44.07 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
Old PC

Image2017-07-07 15.29.09 by D 1, on Flickr

New Pc
Very annoying set bios exactly same and sill get that distinct pattern what ever i do . Funny years ago my desk used to be covered in scalpels flies and other small tools now it just seems to be old PCs
[flickr]Image2017-07-07 17.22.05 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]

Still even with the erratic clock all seems to work well . I can work out the steps per mm 640 actually but i wonder if its still best to dial gauge every thing .Any thoughts on that one ?

[flickr]Image2017-07-07 21.04.30 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
Y and Z up and running
D1


Fri Jul 07, 2017 1:18 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
D1,
That's an obviously repetitive pattern in the timing graph. Either due to an interaction between the timing of the measurements and the display, making the pattern an illusion, or because of some other software repetitively doing something. Usualy that would get blamed on polling a network connection but if I remember correctly that is a stand-alone machine with no unecessary stuff going on for precisely that reason. It may be the same PC but has it got any new or updated software in it?

I'll need to make sure the next batch of Sodium Siliate is at maximum concentration and find a better source of CO2 than just a tub full of seashells and hydrochloric acid and then try making fire bricks again.

Re that clock: I entered it in the local craft show on Saturday, won a couple of prizes and had a man offer to buy it. I asked him for $350AUD and he nearly bit my hand off. Anyway I have all the materials on hand to make another one and my modified CamBam drawings saved so I'm not complaining! That's a bit more loot in the CNC Upgrade Fund.

Kit

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Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:11 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Kit totally minimal Pc no network connection or other stuff just two front usb connectors active . Think its just a foible of this pc may get another one as they will all be disappearing eventually anyways.
Talk of electric furnaces got me thinking . Not a induction one but just bog standard element one . They seem to generate enough heat for ali and more controllable if ya fit a PID .

May be the way forward think i will just buy some bricks though :D
D1


Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:44 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
D1,
That's an interesting project. He's managing to melt a reasonable quantity of aluminium with only around 2kW drawn from a standard power socket. My logic for using an induction furnace is that the graphite crucible is the heating element which results in minimal loss of heat to the surrounding material and so requires minimal input power. This design seems to work very well but does away with the cost of the induction driver and, more expensive, a 2kW power supply of around 40v. Slightly more dangerous voltages involved but for those of us who play with deca-killovolt, multi-meggawatt power supplies for a living who's worried about a mere 240 volts at 10 amps?

Slight problem in my remote corner of the world is that delivery for the fire bricks costs more than the fire bricks but it's still not prohibitive and I can always have another go at the DIY Perlite/Water Glass insulation bricks with neatly moulded slots for the heating element. No problems with open flames and bush fires so there's a vague possibility it might happen this year!

Re the clock again: I spent a couple of hours tidying up my rather haphazard collection of CamBam conversions from the original DXF plans to produce a single drawing for all the wooden parts (bar the frame) which fits nicely onto my CNC router and uses the minimal possible sized piece of premium plywood. The nearest shop for buying anything except bog standard plywood is 860km away so I try to preserve what stocks I have between rare road trips South!
67000 lines of G-code and 90 minutes later it's all cut out. There will be a video when the new clock is finished.

Kit

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Thu Jul 13, 2017 4:09 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi kit yes i am leaning towards the electric element furnace with PID . Get the impression it takes longer to melt the ali down but at least its then maintained at a constant temp . Lets face it i am never in a hurry nice thing about CNC mills etc they can be going while fiddling with furnace etc and vice versa .
Still cant get my head around your location are you that remote sounds great if you are . But i would miss my daily delivery from the posti its like Christmas everyday for me :D .
I hope to make a bit of money out of mill router to glad ya sold a clock sure it wont be the last . On Cambam front i still love it for simple stuff but fusion seems to be taking over for complex 3D stuff .
D1


Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:12 am
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Location: Exmouth, Western Australia
Post Re: CNC Router Build
Most poms can't get their heads round how remote my corner of Australia is. I'm in Exmouth on the North West Cape of Western Australia. Once you leave Exmouth on the only road, your first fuel stop is 220km and the first town going South, Carnarvon, is another 150km after that. The nearest set of traffic lights are in the first town after Carnarvon, which is Geraldton, a total of 850km from here. The state capital, Perth is a total of 1300km which is the same distance as Land's End to John 'o' Groats, but with only the two sets of traffic lights to hold you up for the first 1250km. Perth is the only place you can fly to from here so that is the quickest place to get to and is where the nearest decent shops are to be found along with theatres, cinemas, all the other wonders of a modern city and any hotels above 'motel' status.

On the other hand we have a fabulous climate, no traffic holdups getting to work (except the ocasional emu), no through traffic as we're on a long peninsula, wonderful beaches, many with very few people on them even in the tourist season and a fabulous reef within swimming distance of the beach in places. Later this year I'm going swimming with humpback whales in the Exmouth Gulf which has the highest population density of whales anywhere in the world when the mothers come here to calf in a couple of months. It may take me as much as 5 minutes to drive to where the boat leaves!

We do get post every day, but you have to go the Post Office to collect it. PO boxes are at a special low rental because of that and woe bedite anyone who gets mail sent to them without the PO Box number in the address. No excuses!

Kit

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Fri Jul 14, 2017 4:58 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Kit i Googled earth ya see what ya mean you do have Exmouth hardware and building supplies though :D
Back on topic been getting my home switches up and running . Cant see the reason for limit switches if software limits is set up. All works fine without additional wiring the extra limit switches would lead to .

Just cant get my proximity switches to work though so resorted to effect pedal switches which work fine but the proximity's would be nicer. This type of sensor http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-DC-6-36V-3 ... 2749.l2649
All wired up as instructions but just not working with board . I get a 0 to 12volt change on the output but mach doesn't recognize it .
[flickr]ImageScreenshot (377) by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
May have to stick with pedal switches which i prefer to micro switches their a lot more robust .
D1


Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:44 pm
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Location: Blackwood, South Australia
Post Re: CNC Router Build
Nice part of Oz Kit. We did a trip up to the Kimberley last year from Adelaide which was fantastic. Lots of driving of course, 10,000 kms. A bit humid for my body but great walks and scenery. Would like to do a trip from Uluru across to Meekathara I think. We like dirt. We've moved further south to a hobby farm in Hindmarsh Valley. No longer having the easy access to places like Jaycar Electronics hasn't made that much of a difference because of internet shopping. Just have to wait a little longer. Hardware stores down here are better than the ones which were close to me in Adelaide. Though we are getting a Bunnings in Victor Harbor which is mostly bad as the small hardware in Victor is planning on closing once this happens. I use a large Mitre10 which is about 30kms away. No problem.

What are the proximity switches you are using D1 ?

Steve.

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Sun Jul 16, 2017 3:39 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
D1, I have the exact same proximity switches and they work fine with me. I connected them via an opto insilated board to further protect the IO inputs. But your controller is different from mine, sorry I can't help.

I also connected the little Z axis touch plate I made, same principle.as the switches:



Mon Jul 17, 2017 2:08 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Edward yep me stumped at mo . The board already as optos built into it i believe. Not to worry the mechanical switches do their job. Z axis probe is next on list was just hoping to resolve the home switches first .
Hi Steve these are the proximity switches http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5x-DC-6-36V-3 ... 2749.l2649
D1


Mon Jul 17, 2017 11:44 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
I think am going to build a router too. Nothing as big as yours, or as strong. I will use 40x80 extrusion and steel brackets everywhere possible. I won't go the epoxy way either. Basically something much simpler as I can't weld steel together.

One of the problems I've read about is that the spindles run too fast, and it would be better if they run at, say, around 10000 revs without losing torque. Anyway, I am not sure if you have fired yours yet, but I am following your build with interest. Also the lubrication / compressor system that you finally go for.


Edward


Mon Jul 17, 2017 12:21 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Edward i haven't fired up the spindle motor yet tubing for water cooler just turned up so need to get a pump ordered now. Suppose speed depends on what you are cutting wood and ali i dont think its a problem . Some say the faster you go the better its . Its all in the chips apparently but still not sure about that one :o .
Sure 40 x 80 extrusion will be fine theirs a lot out their but not sure if they up to cutting ali plate .Look forward to seeing your new project .
D1


Mon Jul 17, 2017 1:07 pm
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Location: Blackwood, South Australia
Post Re: CNC Router Build
Torque on my 3040 is a problem. I tried to route aluminium once but the spindle was too fast and essentially rubbed the material. I understand when using a mill for aluminium you run quite slow but with lots of torque. I have wondered if I should attempt to use stuff I have around the shed like a large stepper motor which would give me the torque for aluminium. I don't really want to spend up on a new controller and spindle motor to cut aluminium.

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Wed Jul 19, 2017 4:54 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
You could experiment with your stepper and I bet you could at least cut slowly. You can certainly cut aluminium at 1000 revs or less if you take it easy, which you would anyway on a small router. You would need to somehow adapt it to take some kind of collet for the endmills.

On my CNC milling machine I cut at 2000 revs pretty fast. The motor is a 750W BLDC, it could run faster if both the pulleys were equal. Ideally I would like to cut at 4000 to 6000 revs. The other smaller milling machine has a 500W motor which is similar in size to a Nema 34. With these BLDC motors the torque is fairly linear, whereas with steppers the torque tends to decrease rapidly as they gain speed.

Ed


Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:24 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi I also did a bit of research on this topic. I don't have a router to confirm - but basically you can cut aluminium at high speed - but you need to limit the depth of cut and use a cutter no more than 6mm, preferably smaller. The idea I think is it's better to keep the feed rate high enough so your not just rubbing - and the shallow depth allows it still to work even if the motor has low torque. In the end it just means doing more passes...

Otherwise - I wouldn't recommend a stepper motor for the spindle. I use a small mill and generally use 3,000 rpm - in fact higher like 5-6,000 is more optimum. The lower speeds are mainly useful for relatively large diameter cutters like 8mm or more.

You could consider using a surplus dc brushed servo motor since they mostly operate up to 3,000 rpm. Ideally it would still need a suitable drive to provide constant rpm... BTW - In Adelaide you can get a very good home grown one from http://www.machdrives.com As a bonus they are excellent as an alternative to steppers for general motion control :)


Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:41 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Not sure ware this slow spindle speed for ali is coming from . Steve sounds like you using wrong end mill the ones designed for ali have specifi chip clearance profiles to prevent gumming up .
On average 20000 rpm seems good but of course this all depends on a lot of things tool size type of cut . This vid seems a good bench mark at 24000 rpm and no lubricant .

Then we have more extreme 40000 rpm

I have a little Sieg X2 and from years of cutting Ali its to slow 2500 rpm .
D1


Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:58 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
I like that Tormach Hi Speed cutting aluminium!

But I am not that obsessed by high speeds as I am not running a production line.

By contrast, the whole two part 15mm thick tilt bracket for my latest head took me around 2 hours to cut, bearing in mind that it is machined hollowed in the underside.

I used mainly an 8mm cutter, then a 6mm spot drill for the chamfer and the eight holes for the M3 bolts where drilled, and then counterbored with a 6mm endmill. So there are a few tool changes here that add a bit to the total time, but when you are doing prototyping, I can live with a reasonably rigid machine that produces parts with less noise, no lubrication system and just a vacuum cleaner to remove the swarf as it cut.

The end cups are about 40mm and were cut using a long endmill 10mm dia, then also hollowed inside. A 30 minute job each. I absolutely love this CNC machining thing, I think it was D1 who said that once I had converted a CNC mill, I would never look back.


Ed

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Thu Jul 20, 2017 6:09 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Edward hi agree spindle speed isn't that important if ya got time then just cut slower . But if ya doing big pieces with lots of pockets it can take ages and thats the point i am at . So the Tormach speed is something i would like to aim for . Thats another reason i have begun to adopt Fusion the adaptive clearance is just a lot quicker than anything you can get out of CamBam.
Nice machining as always Edward and i am glad i turned ya onto the wonderful world of CNC . My only criticism with your head is the perf steel I always dislike when ya get half a hole and a messy edge . Minor crit i know but have you thought of just machining some sheet ali and leaving a nice border .
Hi Steve just thinking about your gummy milling are you sure you are using a center cutting mill bits . I remember when i first started i didnt and i got gummy cuts from trying to plunge into ali .
D1


Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:41 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
I agree about the pre perforated sheets, best to make your own with a nice solid edge around. That will be another job to do next:)

Ed


Thu Jul 20, 2017 12:58 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Thanks for the great leads everyone. I've never properly researched spindle speeds and feed rates or various router bits. My approach has been to start with slow feed rates and speed up until I get into problems which are mostly broken bits. The majority of things that I cut are printed circuit board, acrylic and signbond (aluminium composite panel). The signbond is tricky because I will often be cutting dial markings which I cut with a 0.5mm end mill but I start out with a 0.2mm engraver first to help pierce the 0.5mm aluminium layer. I never change the spindle rotation speed - flat out the whole time. I do have a laser tacho meter so I should check the speed. Looking at D1's video links I can see that I might need to take some risks to cut aluminium or at least do some more scientific research. I'm pretty sure my spindle is only about 250W. The original controller was rubbish so I replaced it but with a lower voltage output which in turn resulted in a lower speed spindle. I'll report back when I give it a try.

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Thu Jul 20, 2017 3:50 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Steve yeah it would be good to see how ya go.
Hi Edward been thinking about your new router project . I know ya not going the epoxy route but have you considered filling the 80x40 with something .Could just be normal concrete certainly would improve rigidity and cut down on resonance noise a empty box produces. Ali extrusion also tends to deform if ya bolt through it which makes it hard to firmly bolt plates to it . A solid cross section would solve this .
On reflection i might have gone that route myself it certainly would have been quicker. But would use epoxy ali powder filler as cavities are not that large :D


Fri Jul 21, 2017 12:00 am
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