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 CNC Router Build 
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Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:36 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
D1, Some sort of concrete mix may help, but also there are heavy duty extrusions available, much thicker than the normal ones. Apparently Misumi do them, they can even do precision machined flat heavy duty extrusions, but I am not sure they will supply to a mere mortal. That, coupled with thick and flat machined ecoplate should do the trick.

I am waiting to learn from your experience with the spindle motor, lubricant, air and so on, meanwhile I am also surfing the CNC forums, good source of information.

Ed


Fri Jul 21, 2017 4:04 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
D1,
My only experience is with LinuxCNC software, but that has the option to use the same switches for limit and homing. I'd be wary of not having limit switches at all as, when first switched on, your machine doesn't know where it is. I also quite commonly reset the X and Y axes to move the cutting point around to suit the material on the machine bed. That can upset the software limits. I'm using basic microswitches which seem to work OK. You can see the Z-axis homing at the beginning of the video at the bottom of this missive.

Feeds and speeds are an ongoing topic on all the CNC forums, the limitation on my machine is the lack of rigidity in the frame. The higher the linear speed, the greater the forces on the tool and hence the frame which causes movement and inaccurate cutting. There are some awsome videos from Tormach out there which show what is possible and also show the importance of chosing the correct cutting path and why tools break due to very sudden forces during changes of direction. Obviously a plug for their own software which manages this problem.

Steve,
I have a couple of 0.5mm end mills but have never been brave enough to test them! I'm using a 2mm, single straight flute bit for cutting the clock gears which works very well and doesn't produce the tear-out on the upper edge of the plywood which the spiral flutes do.


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Sat Jul 22, 2017 5:37 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Kit your mill seems perfect for what you are doing . If it aint broke dont fix it :D
Home switch only really isn't a problem my laser cutter functions that way . Once you ref all on start up that sets machine coordinates and you cant operate past those in work ordinates . If you have a work piece thats is larger than the workable area Mach will let ya know and you wont be able to machine the piece .
My favorite mill bit size is 6mm for ali and 3mm for little bits . Wouldn't like to go any smaller for first cuts on ali . But as you say CNC forums are full of this and i do find they go on a bit :( .
D1


Sun Jul 23, 2017 1:47 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
I've already beefed up the z-axis since that video was made and as the Y-axis rails are now 1 metre long they do flex visibly under pressure so i'm going to add some 50mm square beams (former swimming pool fence posts, paper thin walls but surprisingly rigid) alongside them. At least the current iteration of the machine is good enough (and long enough) to cut the new end braces required so "Kit's first law of CNC machines" is coming true...

"Your first (and therefore handuilt) CNC machine need only be good enough to make the parts required for it's own first upgrade".

Keep up the good work guys, and keep telling us all about it on Timescapes.

Kit

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Sun Jul 23, 2017 3:43 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
The plastic booth for the router is a great idea. I'll have to do something like that for mine as well.

The sailboat project is still taking most of my time. I'm planning on taking it to the Florida Keys this summer even if I can't sail it yet. (I'll probably scrap the mast raising device I made and go with a factory made one) Summer is half over, so I have to use it the way it is and finish the work over winter, or I won't get to use it this summer at all.

The keel is back on the boat after some delays. The guy who knew how to put it back on got caught, so I had to do it myself with the help of the crane operator. There is no video of that part because we were both too busy to film it. Not sure if its on there as it should be, but have to go with it or not use the boat this summer.

Its strange to be getting normal sleep during the summer. This is the first summer in seven years without a turtle expedition. "Nine Hundred Dollar Luxury Yacht" is the least popular channel on Youtube, so apparently an old guy fixing an old boat is not very entertaining. Should have gone with cats wearing hats close-up with a wide-angle lens instead.


Mon Jul 24, 2017 6:20 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
thanx, I never saw that before :-)
https://www.google.de/search?q=cats+wea ... s&tbm=isch

my favorite:
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2195/154 ... ff4c39.jpg

good luck!!


Mon Jul 24, 2017 2:01 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Believe me Kit I had a lot more when I started ! They are great for acrylic routing but slow !

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Mon Jul 24, 2017 5:05 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Still following the progress of the many projects contained within this long post (D1 trademark ;) ). No time-lapse or machining for a while but a few drone projects under way.
D1 I now have Litchi a software programme that allows me to create fairly smooth flight plans at home. I upload them to the drone on site, hit the go button and off it goes :D.

A couple of grazing deer either side of way point 3 of the flight plan at 00:10 from start was a bonus as they are in a slight dip from my ground location. I view on a 27" monitor 5K monitor ;)

This flight starts by rising to 98ft rising to 240ft and back to 98ft where I take back manual control. The speed varies from 2mph to 10mph depending on the curve being navigated.

Good luck with projects will keep on watching.

https://vimeo.com/227100409

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Wed Jul 26, 2017 9:30 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Mike keep spotting your drone stuff do you ever worry you going to loose the little fella seems to travel quite a distance . In fact a new hobby for you https://uavchallenge.org/ lots of tech stuff but me just not into flying .
Back to what brought us all together actually spotted a decent bit of timelaspe the other day .

Very old school no camera moves just the weather and clouds . Lots of this stuff about but this is class and should still be appreciated .
D1
Soz my threads do go on but least not as long as the robot one!


Thu Jul 27, 2017 12:24 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi, D1 thanks for the links, saw the UAVchallange on BBC Click last year, some clever people take part.
I don't think too much about loosing the drone, I make sure the RTH (Return To Home) point is correctly updated to its current take off location, the batteries are 100% charged and it's not too windy at the location and height I want to fly (UAVweather App).
The batteries are "Intelligent" such that you can set actions to take place at certain %age discharge states to try and ensure enough charge to complete a flight or abort and RTH.
Must do a time-lapse flight soon but conditions have to be right. One thing about your threads is that the info is all in one place and comes from a wide knowledge base, keep up the good work, always following if not posting :)

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Wed Aug 02, 2017 12:47 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
OK, I haven't made any progress with the CNC router upgrade yet, I've been busy with other projects (the carport looks much better with a new coat of paint), but we can't have this thread out of the 'active topics' list now can we?

Kit

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Wed Sep 06, 2017 4:13 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi, Kit - quite right - ;) like the clock you built. Not been active lately and am sat in the dust with hole in the wall where the fire was, no radiators and walls stripped back to stone work. just preparing for the plasterer. Couple of weeks in the sun booked whist he does his thing :D

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Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:26 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
To keep the thread going....I have made my initial electronics tests for my new router, e-stop circuit, analogue spindle control, proximity switches, etc. Some people start with the machine building, I prefer to start with the electronics side because I find it the most challenging, as I learn as I go along, and a little mistake could result in little puffs of smoke and a putrid smell coming out of somewhere...

Luckily there are kind souls willing to help when one gets stuck:)

I am going to use servos for my router. Why? I think I have a servo fetish, as quite frankly I could use tried and tested steppers instead, knowing that they'll give me no headaches. I bought a cheap chinese servo to test and so far so good, but obviously it will behave differently under load, and tuning may prove to be impossible, as I will have to rely on pushing buttons on the drive, as there is no software with it. For the sake of an extra £200 per motor, I may as well go for the better Delta servos, but first I'll try the cheaper option as I like to gamble. 9 out of 10, these little gambles prove to be very expensive and the motto should always be, if you can afford it, go for the more expensive but proven option.
I will never learn!

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Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:43 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hello all thought the forum had come to a sticky end but seems it was just technical problems :D .
Afraid no news on my router front as works as taken over and Christmas seems to be upon me again :( .
Hi Mike you prob seen this but thought of you with your pre programmed flights . Think they must be using a similar set up to get a perfect rotation around a designated point

And Edward think ya crazy unless ya building a really large router that needs to travel fast :o .


Thu Sep 07, 2017 12:10 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi D1 and welcome back.

I just like the sweet whisper of servos :)

At this rate I'll have my router finished before yours, and I have only just started! I am switching my spindle tomorrow, on the bench, just so I can test the ON/OFF relay and the analogue speed control.

Forget Christmas, that's for mugs. I hate all this present giving stuff, what a waste!

Edward


Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:02 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Edward i to hate Christmas but i seem to end up advertising it these days .
What spindle motor did you get and yes you will probably get yours finished before mine :(
D1


Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:40 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
I got the 2.2Kw. from some German ebay site that was recommended. It came in about 4 days and cost just over £200 if I remember rightly.

Apparently (according to the expert CNC guys) because of that extra torque with the bigger spindle, you can use it quite happily between 8000 and 12000 for cutting ali at these optimum revs without stalling. The smaller spindles wouldn't have the torque, as it has been discussed earlier. It's a heavy beast of a spindle at 5Kg., but looks well made. And at these slower revs, the noise is said to be quite bearable, I will do some decibel tests and post them here.

I got one of the cheapo chinese pumps, but for testing it's not needed anyway, as apparently you can easily have the spindle on for at least 30 mins before it even gets warm. I am a little apprehensive as always about the first time I use anything I am unfamiliar with. There are some settings to do before firing the motor. The router will be around 1000 x 700mm with dual ballscrews on the longer X axis, belt driven. I will use 5mm pitch screws, good for cutting ali, thus the servos for the times when extra speed is needed, such as if I want to cut wood which requires fast feeds so as to avoid burning the wood. I am just writing from what I've researched, as I otherwise have zero experience with this.

Edward


Thu Sep 07, 2017 2:09 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
My still very quiet on here but Christmas over for me so i have a little free time now whoop!
So got a bit more work on CNC done the mister is now working cheap and cheerful but will do the job i think.

Pulse and interval time can be altered courtesy of a old interval timer i made when cameras didnt have them built in. This means i can use my silent compressor salvaged from a old fridge without it struggling to keep up with air demanded .
The mist can be turned down just turned it up so it could be seen . Prob just use a bit of WD40 when doing ali . Will still use mister as a blower when doing wood as i dont intend to have a extractor system . The router will be fully encased so no need really .
D1


Wed Oct 04, 2017 11:49 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi, just back from the N.Cyprus sun, thanks for the link D1, not seen it, on my drone I can use Point Of Interest (POI) to circle a centre point with a specified distance from object or set up manually.
When do you unveil the Christmas special and working router? Nice little project with the mister, reminds me of the clangers dragon :D might get into my workshop sometime between house renovation and some more southern sun.
A link that may interest you, a bit of a twist on timelapse, quite a bit of planning probably:

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Sat Oct 07, 2017 8:48 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
That's a nice video MikeA. It reminded me of something the real estate agent put together when we sold our old house - https://www.ticketyview.com/timms.3uralla. After the initial screen you'll see the outside of our house and then there's a 3d model button at the bottom right. Fun stuff.

Steve.

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Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:36 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hello all . You do have a hard life Mike is the drone a standard part of your holiday packing these days .
Me having a burst of activity on router so should be done before winter sets in . X and Y all done even got proximity switches working yeah !
[flickr]Image2017-10-09 20.13.31 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
Slight prob with my tool zeroing i cant find a VB script that works . Just found another to copy so will give it a go tom . Does anybody have a link to one that def works . The electrical connections are fine as i get a blink in the diagnostics window .
It was a squeeze getting all cable and hoses in the drag link but all neatly tucked away now . Next big job welding up base frame maybe this week with any luck .
D1


Mon Oct 09, 2017 11:54 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Neat link Steve, I see real estate agents are into drones in a big way these days with plenty of opportunities for commercial fliers.
Hi, D1, progress impressive, what is the cut dimensions when finished?
Got another trip to Tenerife in Dec for a couple of weeks, suffer January ;) and away for all of Feb. Will take my Sony video camera (Still waiting for Axiom, slow progress, so into the new year) to film Carnival but too many regulations to fall foul of with a drone, bad enough in UK to fly in the terms of my insurance :(

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Tue Oct 10, 2017 12:02 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
DISPLACEMENT 1 wrote:
Will still use mister as a blower when doing wood as i dont intend to have a extractor system . The router will be fully encased so no need really .
D1

I was wondering about simply blowing dust out of the cut rather than trying to suck it out with an extractor, my router is in a fully enclosed box. Far less power required but I'm worried about causing a dust explosion. Anybody got experience of clearing wood from a router this way?

Kit

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Tue Oct 10, 2017 7:13 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Kitwn wrote:
DISPLACEMENT 1 wrote:
Will still use mister as a blower when doing wood as i dont intend to have a extractor system . The router will be fully encased so no need really .
D1

I was wondering about simply blowing dust out of the cut rather than trying to suck it out with an extractor, my router is in a fully enclosed box. Far less power required but I'm worried about causing a dust explosion. Anybody got experience of clearing wood from a router this way?

Kit

Hi, Kit.

I don't do much wood but I use a flexible hose from a small industrial vacuum cleaner taped to the cutting head so that it follows the cutter. I feed the hose in from the side of the enclose and find it flexible enough to follow the cutter.
I would think blowing in an enclosure would allow the dust to penetrate the router mechanism unless completely sealed?

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Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:01 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Looking good D1.

It looks like you have used a linear bearing case for your spindle mount and then adapted it, is that right? I bought the typical chinese cast aluminium spindle mount sold on ebay and didn't like it at all, so I then bought a linear bearing holder like yours and removed the bearing which then exposes the 80mm hole, i.e. the same diameter as the spindle. I now have to slit it.

I think that's what you have done anyway, unless you bought it ready made. You've only slit it on one side, I think I will slit it on both sides and then drill holes inside so that I can bolt it to the Z plate from the mount side rather than from the plate side.

Unless your spindle is smaller than 2.2kw,, i.e. a smaller diameter spindle, in which case your spindle mount is probably off the peg needing no adaptation.

Edward


Wed Oct 11, 2017 2:17 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hello all i am not worrying to much about wood dust explosions ! Been in some very dusty places over the years never had a incident but you will find most industrial extractors have a blow out panel just in case .
Also theirs nothing to cause a spark joy of water cooled spindle motor just cant imagine how air cooled ones cope on a cnc router anyways .
Hi Mike could use a hover but just dont want to much noise planning to run the router for long periods so a puff of air every now and then will clear the tool.
Hi Edward nothing special about mount just from CNC4YOU came with the 2.2k spindle nice and solid no issues with it .
Actually powered spindle up today seems about same noise level as my mill with the brushless DC motor . Maybe more of a high pitch wine at low speeds but nothing to worry about

Tool zero sorted to :D

Just started drawing up 4th axis so nearly their
D1


Wed Oct 11, 2017 1:19 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Started work on the 4 axis while i am waiting to weld up main base .
Was hoping just to buy a tail stock but realized they are just to long and would eat into my Y travel.
[flickr] ImageTAIL STOCK by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
So building a little stubby one from scratch should have about 20mm of travel and be about 65mm in total length so should lose to much from me Y travel.
[flickr]Image2017-10-14 19.15.45 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
[flickr]Image2017-10-14 19.15.31 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
D1


Sat Oct 14, 2017 11:36 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi D1,

I watched your two videos. On the the VFD, can't you get it to show the revs rather than the frequency? I set mine up to show the revs on the VFD. Also on the CNC program. I reckon you will be cutting at around 8000 to 12000 revs, the optimum for aly.

The Z stepper sounds a bit rough...AM882 for Xmas?

Question, did you get the little green Hiwin bolt hole covers for the rail holes with your order? Is it genuine Hiwin rail? It should have the Hiwin name embossed along its length. Just asking because I am about to order some.


Sun Oct 15, 2017 6:41 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi Edward was wondering what the VFD was displaying . I was just pleased to see the thing running so haven't really fiddle with it . CNC4 You set them up for the particular spindle they ship so was loath to mess with it to much but will def try and change the display mode .
Not sure whats going on with the Z i agree it doesn't sound pleasant but the other axis does and all the motors on my other mill sound fine . I wont be changing drivers as said before all the others i have offered years of trouble free running . Will have another look at the z at some point something may be out of alignment.
I dont think the rails i have are genuine Hiwin def no green plugs or name embossed .They seem fine but i know what you are like for quality do Zapp stock genuine Hiwin ?
Yep plan to be cutting at a much higher RPM than any of the Aximinster mills can run at . Thats why i was surprised when you bought your last one .

D1


Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:29 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Hi D1,

If you can't sort out your Z stepper, send me a message and I'm happy to post you that driver that I never used, you know, same one as the ones you're using, for free, you can buy me a beer some time.

But first swap drivers, etc, to determine the problem, as it may not be the driver. It could be a dodgy connection?

Zapp don't stock Hiwin, but another good brand, that I have also used. However, I use another supplier for Hiwin, in the Uk, so no worries. I like the bolt caps because they prevent swarf from getting stuck in the holes and then being transferred to the carriages from uderneath, could cause damage potentially. I guess you could fill them in with something easily removable if you are bothered.

Yes, be careful with the VFD when changing values, some people say that you have to do it in a certain order, I don't think it matters, but changing to display revs is a question of pushing one of the buttons, you can also display actual Amps used in the cutting, very useful to see when you are pushing the cut a bit too much.

Will be interesting to see what you cut with the 4th axis...

Regarding spindle noise, at one metre I measured 62db at 15000 revs. Naturally it will make more noise when actual cutting takes place. My spindle is a little different on the outside, probably just cosmetic, here is a render of spindle and mount I did with Fusion360 just for fun.

Image


Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:15 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Ya got me thinking about my Z now curse you ! :D The noise seems more pronounced when its on the downward travel . I think its almost wanting to run away with itself theirs quite a weight their . As i say what i call the Y is fine and i have swapped them over by mistake so its not the driver . I might try a different motor i have a few at mo but do think its the weight issue .
You could plug the holes on your rials by dripping candle wax in them . I may do this myself before final assembly as you say its one less place for crud to gather.
Will have a read of the PDF for VFD before i start pressing buttons but def need the RPM displaying .
The forth axis is just a no brainer been able to machine both sides without complicated jigs is more essential than a tool changer i think . This is why i need to learn Fusion 360 more its good at dealing with model rotation and machining from different angles .
Is that spindle render with fusion or did you render in something else , Very nice
D1
Ps thanks for offer of driver shall we wait until theirs something i can swap with you . I know this is unlikely but ya never know


Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:04 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
I really MUST have another go at mastering Fusion 360.

Kit

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Mon Oct 16, 2017 3:00 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
I do find the modeling a real pain yet the CAM side of it is a sweat little thing when ya get into it .
I have even imported STL files into Fusion but thats not a perfect solution as theirs a limit on triangles and you cant access a lot of he CAM functions .
I still have the free version knowing my luck a will just about master it and then they take the free version off me :(
D1


Mon Oct 16, 2017 4:51 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
As far as I know, Fusion360 is free for hobbyists and even businesses if they are not making more than 100K.

It took me some time to get my head around it, mainly because I had to "unlearn" Solidworks in order to learn Fusion. but I am now reasonably up to scratch with most common builds. What I find a pain in the neck is fusion joints. Also finding things in the history line. Solidworks is better in that sense. But other than that I like Fusion a lot. If anyone gets stuck with their modelling, feel free to ask, I'm not an expert, but I'll try.

Ed


Mon Oct 16, 2017 5:05 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
My mate tried to get the free version recently all he could manage was a trial period . Think we where lucky they just wanted people to get behind Fusion its quite a crowded market.
Think i have the same problem as Edward i am having to unlearn Design Spark which i still like its so easy to use . I find the constraints in Fusion a bit over powering think i would rather select them when i need them rather than trying to stop them doing their thing all the time .
But need to sort it because theirs not a lot out their thats cost effective to deal with a 4th axis .
Ya not tempted to build a 4th yourself Edward i would be interested to see your take on it . Have a feeling it would involve a harmonic drive :D
D1


Mon Oct 16, 2017 6:28 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
4th axis would be nice, but one step at a time, I'll have the pleasure of seeing how you struggle first:)

Ed


Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:28 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
A little off topic. Thought this might be interesting. I had a new tooth "install" yesterday at the dentist. They firstly did a 3d scan in my mouth, followed by some re-modelling of the replacement tooth and then sent it to the router which created the tooth. They did a fitting and then put it in a small furnace to "bake" it. Pretty amazing stuff. Here's the same make of machine that milled the tooth - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT9dqdURox4

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Mon Oct 16, 2017 2:43 pm
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Thats a interesting thing looks like its got two machining heads but hard to tell with all that water . Dentistry as come a long way! in may day job i use UV activated stuff now and then .
On topic off topic a little more work on the 4th axis done in between rust proofing a new Defender that should have been done in the first place by Land Rover considering how much you pay for the dam things :( But thats another story
[flickr]Image2017-10-16 19.57.19 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
Spinny thing for the 4th axix not sure what ya call them .
Really hope theirs a post processor in Fusion for Mach 3 that deals with the fourth axis better start looking me thinks.
D1


Tue Oct 17, 2017 11:19 am
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Post Re: CNC Router Build
Well got a feeling theirs not a post processor for Mach/fusion 4th axis's . I can work round this by indexing but would be nice just to dump the code out of Fusion .
More positive news finally got round to my mate workshop and got the base welded up. Always a struggle keeping everything lined up and flat .But you do end up with something that is very rigid . This one not going any ware :D
[flickr]Image2017-10-19 15.11.51 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]

Glad i wont have to weld any more frames up for rigs going to be 10mm ali plate all the way now i can machine it when the routers finished .
Dont know how that Rame fella got on with his rig lot of welded steel boxes ? Just really hard to get everthing square and true the welding heat causes all sorts of distortion .
D1


Thu Oct 19, 2017 1:02 pm
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