Timescapes - Digital Timelapse Discussion

CNC Router Build
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Author:  edward [ Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi D1. For X and Y I will be using 16mm. For the Z, maybe 20mm.

Re machining the ball nut, well, you are right, I don't want to melt the plastic bits inside. And I don't want to start removing balls, plastic retainers, guides,etc, so I guess I'll just have to go very gently with the cutting. Cut a bit, cup of tea, cut another bit....What a pain!


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Thu Dec 01, 2016 10:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Very slow process on router but little bits are been done . Just finished motor mount for Z axis i have built in zy adjustment on ballscrew bearing and motor mounts so it wont be to difficult to get everything lined up nicely.
[flickr] Image2016-12-01 18.08.09 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
Also borrowed a precision spirit level just to get things nice and level before i pour the epoxy . Apparently about £300 of level !
[flickr]Image2016-12-01 16.11.16 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]

Author:  edward [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 3:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Looking good, D1.

I'm doing a similar thing to you for my Y axis, only I will be using a block, rather than round pillars, and only drilling a hole to insert the Oldham style coupler at one end and the two angular contact bearings at the other end.

I prefer to use and Oldham style coupler for three reasons:

-To minimise vibration due to possible slight misalignment.

-To have a better grip on the shaft and on the ballscrew, as each coupler uses a split grip, much better than set screws for high torques, in my opinion.

-To couple the ballscrew and motor by simply sliding the motor inside the hole in the block.

I have to cut the Y axis ballscrew length by about 10mm. I am going to have to buy an angel grinder. I'm a bit scared of using one, but like everything, once you gain confidence, it will be OK. I am also having to machine the flange of the ball nut and lop off about 3mm. to gain clearance. I've already had a go and it is quite a hard metal for my little SX2, but not impossible with patience and small passes.

Will post photos once I do it.


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi Edward i have used Oldham type couplers but think its personnel choice . With the oldham type the bit in the center is always moving against the other bits so ware may happen eventually least with the solid type when they ware they just fail catastrophically and replacement is obvious.
Agree with clamp style though much better than a set screw yet again i get mine from CNC4YOU seem good quality.
Round pillars instead of blocks just because it easier to let my lathe bore and thread them.
I look forward to a few photos ive manged to get a bit of welding done today as its a bit warmer in shed 2 . Not the prettiest of welding but its deep and solid which is important . Frame already feeling very solid even without the epoxy filler inside of box . Think will knock those ali framed routers out of the water :D
[flickr] Image2016-12-02 18.03.10 by D 1, on Flickr [/flickr]

Author:  edward [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Welding seems scary. I may go to a welding course next summer, it will come in handy.

I have exactly the same arrangement of the FK12 as you have, this much easier than boring accurate holes for the bearings!

I have one question: you have the ball nut screwed like mine, i.e. the flange is facing the FK12. Do you think it would matter if I had the ball nut screwed the other way round? It's just that I may have to do that in order to get the most of the movement of the axis. This means taking the ball nut out and putting it back in with the flange facing the other end, other than that, I don't think it matters which side you put the ball nut in?

I don't have the little tube to put at the end to prevent the balls from going all over the place, but I guess any bit of card wrapped around as a tube and held together with tape will do the trick.


I've calculated that your round pillars are about 6.5cm long ;)

Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 11:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

You scare me Edward :D yes the pillars are 65mm long.
As for turning ball nut round i had to do that on may crane and thats when i discovered the ball bearings drop out :( Other than that small nightmare the ball nut works fine with the flange at the other side .
If you still have your CNC Fusion conversion kit you will find some cardboard tubes in their for removing ball nuts.
On welding front think said before but love this one http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/tig-weld ... dc-160amp/ can do ali and stainless to and not a bad price .

Author:  sciencelookers [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Edward, Welding isn't very hard to teach yourself. I got an $89 welder from harbor Freight (famous for cheap Chinese tools). I spent a day practicing on bits of scrap metal I had here and was ready to weld real stuff. My welder feeds wire off of a spool and some sort of flux inside the wire makes a gas shield to keep the air off the weld. It helps to use the angle grinder to clean the metal before welding. I actually got a second angle grinder so I have a thin cutoff wheel on one and a thick face-grinding wheel on the other. This saves a whole lot of time because I don't need to keep switching grind wheels. BTW, Never let any part of yourself get in the same plane as the cutoff wheel. Occasionally they shatter, sending chunks out at high-subsonic speeds. Very nasty.

The biggest problem is seeing what you are doing. The auto-darkening welding helmets are nice, but I find that turning the brightness up enough to see the weld easily leaves afterimages for a few minutes after welding, so I turn it darker. When joining flat things, I grind a beveled edge on each side so I am filling a "V" shaped trench with weld. You don't need to go side to side with the weld, just go straight along the seam and go slow enough to fill the trench with weld. You always want a "V" shaped trench to fill and you grind the metal if necessary to make the trench before welding.

A timer with a loud alarm is also useful to let you know when to stop and let the welder cool down. Most cheap welders are only rated for a 20 to 40 percent duty cycle. I think mine is 3 min on and then a ten minute wait until I can use it for another 3. I use the cool-down time to cut metal or grind other pieces that are to be welded next. Steel is easy to weld. Aluminum is harder to get right. I got a MIG welder for aluminum and had terrible results until I started using a propane torch to pre-heat the aluminum to several hundred degrees before welding. After pre-heating it was very easy.

Author:  edward [ Fri Dec 02, 2016 12:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Thank you for all your advice guys:)

I hear your advice about the grinding wheel shattering, so I'll keep myself out of the range as much as possible, and will go easy when I cut the ballscrew.
I am always very cautious when it comes to using new tools or machines. Even for something as innocuous as using a lathe, I went to classes to gain some confidence, and the advice and knowledge I gained in the course was invaluable.

For some reason I've never found manual milling scary, I just went and did it and I've never broken any cutters or had things flying. But now with CNC, I know I will be slightly nervous to go too fast or too deep.

The one machine that I still dislike intensely is the chop saw (or mitre saw). Cutting aluminium it's so easy to get the saw teeth jammed and the whole piece goes flying like a projectile across the room. It happened once and I have a lot of respect for these chop saws :o

So I bought a motorised hack saw for these tasks, completely safe, if a bit slow.

D1, I finally opened the Fusion kit, the little tubes are for a smaller diameter ballscrew and they don't fit the 12mm. I may slit one along the length to open it to 12mm and put tape around. BTW, I think the Thomson ballnuts in this Fusion kit look quite inferior (I can feel the backlash and sideways play) compared to the nice CNC4You ballnuts that I am quite impressed with. One of the Cnc4You ballscrews was slightly over 12mm where the bearings go, so they wouldn't fit, and I had to put it in the lathe and use fine emery cloth and polish to slightly knock it down to 12mm.


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Sat Dec 03, 2016 2:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi Edward yes i wasn't impressed with the ballnuts of the Fusion kit either. But that been said they been working fine for a few years now .
Thinking ahead on my router build just wondering how to square the gantry up and will it drift out over time do to separate steppers ?
Found a few vids on squaring but they dont seem that precise.

Think i might have to borrow a precision square but that might only be about 200mm long so not that great .
Any other ideas out their ?

Author:  edward [ Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Yes, a precision engineers square is what I use for my mill. Kinex Grade 0 DIN 875 which I only use for calibration purposes and keep it protected and separate from my other regular engineering squares, so that the edge doesn't get damaged.

DIN 875/00 and 875/0 are lab quality instruments or used for checking the accuracy of other tools.


Author:  edward [ Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

One of the first things I checked with this new mill was if the head/spindle assembly was running parallel to the column, because this is a fixed head, so you can't rotate it or adjust it. So if they weren't parallel, you may as well give up on life or go trim your garden roses!.

So I clamped the magnetic base to the mill column and run the column up and down with the dial indicator touching on the X side of the 8mm rod as shown, and then same again behind the rod at 90 degrees to check the Y. Naturally this assumes the rod is straight and not bent ;)

Luckily the head runs parallel to the column (about 0.01mm deflection). This is an operation that some people omit, or they may not be aware of, but I think it's a vital check (particularly with rotating heads) before doing any of the normal spindle to table tramming by shimming the column or using special levelling epoxy (steel based) instead of shims.

If the head is not parallel to the column, when using different height tool bits ( for instance, changing from short drill to longer drill) the X and/or Y will shift a little and you'll wonder why the drill bit is not quite centred on the hole you are making.



Author:  Kitwn [ Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

As James said about angle grinders, it's important to keep out of the plane of the disc in case it breaks but you should also consider where the sparks are going to fly before you start and cover anything nearby if required. I assume all grinders are like mine and allow you to move the guard round to maximise access to the work and protection from the disk and sparks at the same time. The sparks won't harm you if they hit your skin but they are uncomfortable so cover up. I'm sure you don't need to be told about eye protection.

I'd also like to try welding and several people have told me to go with the MIG type which have a spool of wire, like James' welder, rather than the cheaper 'stick' type. MIG is apparently easier to learn and can weld much thinner material including car body panels. Let us know how you get on.

My Christmas present is going to be a new, much-better-than-the-old-one pillar drill. Still no room for a lathe at the moment and the drill is the most used tool I have.


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Sun Dec 04, 2016 2:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Ya still out their Kit . I have used all types of welders and my favorite is my current set up . Ok not the cheapest but a lot cheaper than they used to be thanks to the little Chinese people . Just a pleasure to use no huge eruption of sparks you get with a mig or stick . Its more for smaller jobs as it takes longer to run a weld than a mig . The weld is generally a lot deeper than you will get with a Mig and can be very neat when you got the hang of it . Just buy a decent auto darkening mask and you are laughing . The mask vary in quality greatly i have two ones crap and needs to be thrown away. I thought they were all like that until i bought my new one .
Hi Edward just ordered another lever dial gauge in preparation for a lot of fiddling . Only a cheap one as i just need a indication of deflection not a measurement so should be ok i think . Fella i borrowed level of as a set of precision squares so will be borrowing one of those shortly . I have my own but i have been know to use them as hammers in desperate moments :(
As for tramming spindle this seems to be a way to go on my router will see . I intend to fly cut the entire bed when everything is good .


Author:  edward [ Wed Dec 07, 2016 2:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Well I finally did it!

I donned my gloves, leather apron, goggles and visor (you can't be too cautious!) and I had a trial run with a piece of steel. This allowed me to learn how to rotate the angle grinder guard to direct the sparks appropriately. It was like Christmas had arrived, lovely sparks. Having said that, it was difficult to see what was being cut.

I have passed the baptism of fire :lol:

Then I tackled the ballscrew. It really only took about a minute to cut, if that. A lot easier than I thought. To remove the screw nut, I rolled a 30cm length of normal letterhead paper to form a tube and held it with sellotape.



Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi Edward hope the conversion still going well . Glad to here you haven't been blinded by a exploding grinding disc . To Be honest with prob 30 years plus of using angle grinders i have never had one explode on me
People are naughty sometimes and use sliting discs as grinding discs this is a def no no they just not designed for side pressure so attempt this at your own peril .
Well my build still ongoing and i seem to be creating a monster that as taken up all of my shed :( Not only is it big its heavy when finished i am sure it will weigh well over 200kg . But its solid i can understand why the smaller CNC routers out their are all ali framed but i doubt they are truly rigid enough.
[flickr] Image2016-12-13 16.02.02 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
[flickr]Image2016-12-13 16.01.38 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
[flickr]Image2016-12-13 16.05.15 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
Just order ali for z axis this will be cut to size by ali warehouse http://www.aluminiumwarehouse.co.uk/ so just a matter of drilling holes and putting a few pockets in

Author:  edward [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 3:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi D1, that monster looks super!

It looks like you haven't welded the cross rungs yet or aligned the rails...that will be fun! I would like a small version of yours, which I will build in the future. So I am very interested in your final results.

For now, I have already finished the Y axis on my mill and it works beautifully, nice and smooth. To protect the "Y" ways at the front from swarf, rather than using rubber bellows, which are always a pain to clean, I may experiment with a sliding U shaped cover in aluminium, in one piece. I have seen telescopic covers used, but for a small mill it is too complicated so I will just use one U shaped length of around 19cm, which is the equivalent to the Y transverse distance. This cover can easily be bolted to the saddle. However, if it vibrates, or if swarf gets in through the underside, I may have to go back to using bellows.

I am starting on the X axis this week, I will have to mill part of the saddle to accommodate the bulk of the ballnut, but I think cast iron machines quite easily.


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi Edward yes not welded the cross runs yet . I am saving that for when i can get into my mates workshop to use is heavy duty table . Thats prob with welding steel no matter how well you line things up the heat caused by the process cause movement. In Most cases this isn't a problem but you def couldn't mount the rails on this as its you need the self leveling epoxy or access to a very large surface grinder . Epoxy is today's job me thinks .
Like your idea for protecting all your nice rails i am hoping mine wont suffer to much as they are quite well out of the way . We shall see ?

Author:  chardie [ Tue Dec 20, 2016 1:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

one other thing to consider is not to wear loose clothing when using a grinder. loose clothes can catch on the grinder wheel. the grinder will be ripped out of your hands and do some rather unpleasant things to your chest or arms. happens every couple of years where i work. not to me i run a cnc :D but the shapers get complacent every now and then.
just thought i'd mention it not sure if anyone else had already pointed it out

Author:  edward [ Sun Jan 15, 2017 6:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

It looks like D1 is basking in the sun in Honduras?

Hope he returns alive, wherever he is. Here is an update on my CNC mill conversion all finished, now I need to put all the drivers, PSU, etc in a nice enclosure. The cover at the front of the Y axis keeps the swarf away from the ways and moves in and out with the axis. Easy to clean. I am now playing with home/ limit switches and learning the CAM side of Fusion360.



This video shows how the cover moves with the Y axis.

Author:  sciencelookers [ Mon Jan 16, 2017 12:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

WOW Very neat job with the conversion! It looks very nice as does your new workspace. Hope you get to make a mess in there soon.

Author:  edward [ Mon Jan 16, 2017 2:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Thank you, yes, I can't wait to make some chips :)

And there is also a strong possibility of making a pneumatic drawbar and auto tool change...

Playing with inductive proximity sensors at the moment.


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

[quote="edward"]It looks like D1 is basking in the sun in Honduras?quote]

God i wish ! Had a server case of man flue since New years day so combine that with general Christmas rubbish not had a chance to do anything :(

Yeah really nice conversion Edward neat as always . Have you managed to keep the manual control of the Z axis or as inserting a ballscrew messed that up .
Nice drivers and unregulated power supply to . Never tried one of those yet i know they are supposed to be better its just that regulated ones are very easy to get and reasonably priced .

Let us know how you go with fusion i just couldn't get my head round it . But as i am looking at adding a fourth axis it would make sense to learn it . Think Fusion can cope with that .
All in all think ya onto a winner with that mill its just the spindle speed that you will find frustrating but am sure you can do something about that .

Author:  edward [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi D1, I thought you had fled the country or something!

There's a lot of flu and cough going about. Everybody in my household has had the flu vaccine, I hope it works.

Re the mill and the Z axis, I decided not to put any handles anywhere. Besides, if I wanted to drill by hand, I can position the mill accurately with the buttons (I can also control it with a gamepad) and then use the manual spindle lever on the side, it has a massive spring loaded downward travel, at least 70mm.

Re the drivers, don't want to sound unkind, but I bought one of the ones you mentioned for the Z axis, just to try, and it sure did the job, but in all honesty, when compared against the other Leadshine EM806's side by side, it was like day and night in favour of the Leadshine, in terms of smoothness and much lower noise, so it is now in the discarded driver drawer, gathering dust. In fairness, the Leadshines are rather more expensive, so it's not surprising. The AM882's are the older equivalent to the new EM806. I can't see any difference in behaviour, they also look physically the same, so if you want a bargain and you are willing to wait, there are still plenty on Ebay for £48.70

The linear unregulated psu is what is recommended, and this one, also a Leadshine, at 68V. doesn't make any noise or gets warm at all, mind you, it's not inside an enclosure yet.

Regarding Fusion360, I tried a few others, just downloading the demos, but I settled for Fusion360 because coming from Solidworks like I do, I find Fusion a doddle and quite similar, although not as advanced, and also slower and more annoying, but still very good and far better than all the other demos I tried. The CAM side takes a bit to get used to, I suffered hours of American videos with tutorials, often falling asleep half way, but I am almost there now.

BTW, I initially used the cheapo ebay bearings like in yours, but I wanted to see if buying the real McCoy made any difference, so I bought one and the backlash dropped a bit. The securing nut is better machined, thicker and has two set screws. Now I have approx 0.045mm at each axis which is as good as it's going to get without resorting to anti-backlash ballnuts, or replacing with larger bearing balls, etc.. Before it was 0.065mm so a little improvement is always welcome. With backlash compensation it's just perfect, all completely gone, although I still have to see how it behaves in real life cutting some circles, so far I've just done the usual rookie thing with a pencil in the chuck to scribble some names on paper and it was just perfect.

I have bought a few pieces of Acetal in various thickness just to try and learn gently cutting a few holes, pockets and contours without pushing it too much, until I know my machine, then I will see how far I can take it. As you can see, I am very cautious with machinery, until I learn to trust it.

Since my machine has the R8 tool holder, I can easily convert it to the Tormach quick tool change system, and eventually to auto changing, though that's a long way away. I will let you know how it goes. I am not sure if you can do it with MT3 spindles, probably not.

So it has taken a long time for me to go for this CNC thing, but I've finally done it, and once decided, it didn't take too long to adapt this mill anyway. I will post some more pics when I install the proximity sensors in a few days.

Good to see you back.


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Tue Jan 17, 2017 1:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Wouldn't say i am fully back yet feel like a old car firing on 3 cylinders . Head very foggy not good for solving probs at all .
So on your mill the manual spindle lever is independent of the z axis. On my little Sieg it was part of the rack and pinion of the z axis . Which is now redundant because of the ballscrew .
Sorry about the drivers i dont seem to have a problem with them and i could only compare it with the leadshines i had which are terrible . It sort of put me of the entire leadshine range perhaps i should give them a try again. But as all my stuff is animation smoothness is not a issue as long as the step is constant and torque is high when you run at speed .
From my little research on auto change you almost have to replace the entire spindle motor for one that allows the vacuum tube to pass through the center of the spindle . Could be wrong on that one though .
Any luck on misting lubrication yet . I have a air soleniod http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201672100512? ... EBIDX%3AIT and timer circuit sat on my desk I am hoping by varying interval and duration of air pulse i will be able to use my normal high pressure compressor but the tank should last a lot longer and have to recharge less . So not perfect solution but it will blow chips away every now and then which is better than not at all .
Hope to start again next week when my head a bit clearer so will be a bit more progress

Ps if you want to sell that drive i will pay what you paid as i need more cheers

Author:  edward [ Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi D1,

The drive is the bigger one for up to 80V. Yours are the smaller ones and they may be better? I will keep mine to experiment with other things, as it's the only one I have left that goes with the higher voltage.

Regarding the tool change, I just hate having to go through the time consuming ritual of changing endmills and drill chucks, and then having to set zero the Z axis again. So a fast and accurate tool change is my first project.

I think things may be completely different when applied to a router spindle, but for a normal upright mill, there are various easy and relatively cheap options, the cleanest one being a little pneumatic cylinder with a lever that presses down on the drawbar. That's the Tormach way. You need the Tormach TTS collets, etc for that, but I've just bought a knock off with ER20 collets , not for cheapness, as it is more or less the same price, but for convenience as you can then buy it in the UK. So basically you end up with each endmill or drill bit in its own collet, so you save the Z distance of each tool initially in your tool library, and then you never again have to bother to set the Z zero coordinate for each tool.

From there to making an auto tool changer it is not too much of a step.

I haven't even thought about lubrication, I am more interested in a system that actually sucks the swarf instead of blowing it all over the place, but I may change my mind on that.

I hope you recover soon, ginger and lemon tea works wonders.


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Wed Jan 18, 2017 2:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi Edward i agree changing tools is a pain and i try to avoid it . This sometimes compromises design and finish but if it works it will do .
Does fusion 360 allow for auto changing or do you have to add your own script . I will be interested to see how you go it would be nice to add it to my router eventually .
Ps like your cabinets you have a very nice man shed their . Are you planning on any other tools 3d printer maybe ?

Author:  edward [ Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Thanks, yes, my man cave keeps me well out of trouble:)
I have other tools not seen in the picture, like a Wabeco lathe and a wheel/band sander, plus the powered hacksaw and so on. A 3D printer will come along sometime, I am sure...

Yes, I am pretty sure Fusion360 divides a full project into several smaller tasks where you can pause and do your tool change. For example, if you want to mill the underside of a piece, or even change end mills from rough to fine, etc. I want to connect a relay to stop the spindle automatically when doing that. I am not interested in spindle speed control, as it's very difficult to implement on this mill, as it doesn't have a potentiometer to regulate the speed, rather digital push buttons.

I think I am getting the quick change collets tomorrow, I will take a pic and post it.


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Wed Jan 25, 2017 3:25 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hello Edward hows the collets going . Had a look at it all and its more problematic with spindle motors . Because its basically already a collet based system it would be hard to fit a collet holder. Think i would have to buy a spindle motor already incorporating a quick change collet . So think that will all have to be for the future shame though.
On with a work job at mo which i thought might interest you . Finally had enough of the limitations of the M5 v wheels so made some M8 versions . These locate in the standard Rexroth 10mm grove and should be a lot more substantial will let ya know .
[flickr]Image2017-01-25 11.06.25 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]

Author:  sciencelookers [ Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

I really like the lathe tool you made to cut the wheel profile. I didn't understand what it was at first and why it was included in the picture. Once I figured out its relation to the wheels I was very impressed. Did you use the special tool to cut a bunch of wheel profiles into a rod, then drill the centers out? Or were they made one at a time by profiling the end of the rod, then cutting the hole with a different cutter? Your eccentrics look very nice as well. I assume you used the CNC mill to cut the eccentrics? Hopefully this will motivate me to get back to making the router work. It was a bit demoralizing when the tiny G board just quit working for no apparent reason. Very difficult to spend another $130 for another one with no assurances it won't be in the recycle bin a week after it arrives as well. The more nice CNC work I see here, the more motivated I become to get back to another attempt to make the router work. I'm also accumulating a list of things which get put off until the router is done because they would be so much easier with the router. Its made such a convenient excuse, I think that may have also unconsciously contributed to the delay.

Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Well seems to work wouldn't say it runs as smooths as the smaller Vslots but its a lot more solid . With a little finessing of the wheels profile i think i will get their . The Rexroth hasnt got the v slope like openbuilds stuff so wheel profile a bit of a compromise .
Yes eccentrics out of 15mm ali plate and wheels out of 16mm Nylon 6 plate . Little recesse for bearing which would have been a pain to do on a lathe so mill a lot easier .
[flickr]Image2017-01-25 17.15.52 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]

Author:  edward [ Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi D1,

Nice wheels, I could do with a few like that:) I will make myself a few in the future too, I like your idea for the cutter profile. And 8mm bolts are now more than adequate for this, so well done!

For my part, I have been learning Fusion360 and I think I now understand all the concepts to do with the CAM. I've been cramming a lot, I now need the practice.

So today I made my first test piece to fit a ball bearing. No need for the piece, it's just playing with a piece of Delrin. So I practiced how to make pockets, how to use contours and how to apply a rough cut leaving a little bit of material for a final finishing cut using Climb milling.

I will next practice on aluminium to get all my feeds and speeds right.


And SL, you should get that router going, it's about time:)


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi Edward bet it feels good to be actually cutting stuff you wont regret it .
As for wheels i had another dig on web and found these http://www.aluminium-profile.co.uk/acat ... tml#SID=71 . I am sure they didn't do these last year as i use this supplier a lot .
Not sure how good they are . I am finding the dimension of the wheel that fits in the slot is critical to stop lateral play . V slot solves this with its nice V profile but my wheels are working for what i want them to do .
Did your collets turn up ?

Author:  edward [ Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Those wheels are good too! However, the groove not being a V shape, I wonder how well they will slide, or whether they will jam in the groove...I also order from these suppliers, and first time I see them.

Yes, I did receive the tool holder knock offs that look pretty much identical to the Tormach, very well made. I am using the ER2 collets in a holder with a 3/4" straight shank which goes inside a 3/4" R8 collet, (this is how the Tormach works) which is ideal for this size of mill. Eventually I will do the auto tool change, but for the moment I just wanted to have an easy system to change the tools quickly and maintain the zero distances.

Now I am saving for a small insert type facemill


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:01 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi Edward i might get some ER2 collets for my mill do you mind posting a link to your supplier . So with ER2 its possible to maintain zero distance and you can just store that in your tool library ?
The wheels i made dont jam but they have to be a perfect fit or theirs play . So as i say not perfect solution but useful occasionally. I could try running a chamfer tool down the Rexroth channel to produce a V groove . But that would mean special jigs etc and i prefer just to deal with stock Rexroth.
Maybe one day Openbuilds will extend their range ,hope so.
Still no progress on router work taken over again :(

Author:  edward [ Fri Jan 27, 2017 1:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Here is the link for the ER holders. These ones make contact with the bottom of the spindle, so the repeatability is always the same. But ideally you should have an R8 spindle, as the MT£ needs quite a whack to dislodge whereas the R8 needs just a very, very gentle tap,

You will also need to buy the 3/4" collet which is specially machined at the front.


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Cheers Edward not come across this supplier before interesting stuff . Will have a read they do had quite a length to spindle though which means having the Z higher not sure if thats a issue though.
Ta D1

Author:  edward [ Fri Jan 27, 2017 4:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

It's the normal ER20 length, I have no problems with it, plenty of space to lift up the mill head.

Today I cut aluminium for the first time with this machine. First result was bad, too ambitious in the DOC, so it jammed. After a few trials I seemed to get it right. I am now experimenting with various speeds and feeds, it's quite fun:)


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Sat Jan 28, 2017 3:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Yeah so many variables the cutter makes a huge amount of difference this is my all rounder http://www.cutwel.co.uk/milling/milling ... e47-series I use a 3mm and it will quite happily cut through 15mm plate and been 3mm means it can do 4mm taps .
As for DOC i do .4mm thats good thing with CNC you can have very little DOC but it gets their eventually :D
My Z height thing was more you are away from table height the more chance of column movement but as say may not be a issue and your mill is more substantial than mine .

Author:  edward [ Sat Jan 28, 2017 10:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Hi D1,

Just to give you an idea of my settings that work well, I am cutting a radial depth of 1mm and an axial depth of 1.8mm. With Fusion360, the cutter slowly ramps down to 1.8mm each time and then it cuts in a helicoidal way starting from the centre, 1mm width of cut all the time until it gets close to the contour, leaving like 0.4mm of material for the last 2 passes for which I use climb milling to give the piece a nice finish. No struggle at all with these settings, but I want to fine tune even better.

The feed is 200mm/min and the spindle revs 1250 with a 10mm end mill for aluminium. No coolant or air or anything, just the hoover sucking the swarf fairly regularly. Naturally, with a 3mm cutter, things will change dramatically, I think.

I am sure I can push the feeds to near 300mm/min if I up the revs to around 1600. But I think I am already quite close to the limits as it is.

So quite nippy for a hobby grade machine really. Now the fun begins!

When I got the jam, I had it set to 2mm width of cut, and 3mm down plunge, no wonder it jammed! To be honest, I just believed the Fusion estimate for the end mill, which was 3.2mm. but of course, this is for proper big professional machines! I then reduced it to 1.6mm width and it still struggled, so I switched it off before it jammed again. Now I have it on 1mm and it's no problem, maybe I could up it to 1.2mm, but there is little point, it's best to up the feeds as much as possible and get a width of cut that the machine is comfortable with.

The noise when cutting is 73db. The steppers are silent when cutting, with a little whistle when doing the rapids. The spindle motor temperature after 20mins running is a mild 34C. The steppers are completely cold, not even close to struggling. I use the 2.2Nm motors for X and Y and the 3.1Nm for the Z (this one with a 2:1 pulley). A micro of x8. (1600).

Backlash was originally 0.06mm. with the Chinese bearing blocks, but with genuine TMT bearing blocks I reduced it from 0.06 to 0.04mm. but I have backlash compensation on, which seems to work. I recommend you persevere with Fusion360. It's painful to start with but you soon get used to it.


Author:  DISPLACEMENT 1 [ Sat Jan 28, 2017 11:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: CNC Router Build

Sounds like you are having fun i may look at fusion again but i do like the simplicity of CamBam .
Must admit i couldn't do much machining with a 10mm cutter It just wouldn't fit into any pockets or profiles of anything i make . Lots of my stuff as M4 to M6 tapped holes and i dont like changing tools so 3m it is . As for finish i go for it works and then it goes in tumbler for a day and that cleans things up nicely :D .
Will be nice to see your first finished part .I assume you can import anything you designed in Solidworks into Fusion .

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