It is currently Fri Nov 15, 2019 9:21 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 189 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5
 New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:55 am
Posts: 951
Location: UK
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Quote:
I need to sort this for my model mover hows the motion sensor going by the way ?

On hold but not forgotten.

Quote:
Hi Mike don't mention Cartesian coordinates just got me head round how to determine a angle from the length of the sides of a triangle

LOL
Should be ok, you have a pivot point, I did not so the motion was based on x,y movement similar to creating a round pocket / curve on the mill. ;)

_________________
Smile, it gives your face something to do!

http://www.vimeo.com/user1214873/videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrReggub


Tue Jul 05, 2016 1:42 am
Profile

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 561
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Hey D1.

In my infinite spare time I could to add an option to Mantis to calculate all this stuff and export true XYZ positions for CGI. You would need to input the distances between the fixed pivot points. Also you would need to calibrate the ballscrew so it was in exact units, and set the home point with the arm level. The result would be as accurate as the measurements The inverse could also be done - since at present Mantis can convert incoming XYZ data into a boom rig...

Mike - I've seen copies of XP service pack 3 on a few other sites, even though it's not supported by Microsoft anymore.


Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:43 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 1294
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
geraldft wrote:
Hey D1.

In my infinite spare time I could to add an option to Mantis to calculate all this stuff and export true XYZ positions for CGI. You would need to input the distances between the fixed pivot points. Also you would need to calibrate the ballscrew so it was in exact units, and set the home point with the arm level. The result would be as accurate as the measurements The inverse could also be done - since at present Mantis can convert incoming XYZ data into a boom rig...

Mike - I've seen copies of XP service pack 3 on a few other sites, even though it's not supported by Microsoft anymore.


I was hoping you would say that :D
Have you seen that mammoth head on Doug's page


Funny fella like is approach .
D1


Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:29 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:55 am
Posts: 951
Location: UK
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Gerald, I found a site for XP3 update and applied it, but thanks for the info.

D1, Saw that head, quite impressive, like the ride on slider ;)

_________________
Smile, it gives your face something to do!

http://www.vimeo.com/user1214873/videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrReggub


Wed Jul 06, 2016 3:50 am
Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:49 pm
Posts: 175
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Piotr's Head. Nice. It looks like a Sorenson head or am I wrong? I'm interested in those motor mounts that disengage with a latch mech. Now that is cool. Reason number 5,964 why I want a CNC machine.

Cheers.


Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:15 am
Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:49 pm
Posts: 175
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Pretty close. A great homage to that SDI head.


Attachments:
SDI_head2.jpg
SDI_head2.jpg [ 121.45 KiB | Viewed 10128 times ]
Wed Jul 06, 2016 4:38 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 1294
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Ah thought it looked familiar . Did i hear right when he said 18Kg thats quite a lump not sure if ts necessary these days but each to his own . Great build though and yes i CNC makes all this possible , Build one Doug it aint hard and not to expensive . Do you have a welder or able to brow one steel frame def the way to go :D
D1


Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:00 pm
Profile

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 561
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Piotr or "Fox" is from New Zealand. The head is a pretty literal knock-off of a Sorenson Head. Even the quick release catches on the worm gears are the same. They are spring loaded to provide low backlash. I have an original Sorenson, which is even heavier since it was designed to carry a Panavision 35mm camera with a 1,000ft of film. His build is slightly smaller than the original, but still substantial. Perhaps he is planning to support some kind of monster camera?

BTW - His integration of Mantis into a Pelican case quite interesting...


Wed Jul 06, 2016 7:17 pm
Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:49 pm
Posts: 175
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
I guess Fox is anticipating some film work? The rig is more than ready for it. I love the Pelican case or whatever brand that case may be. A beautiful all in one solution. Can't remember who but someone used a tool box. Another great solution. Justin I think?

Whoops! Off topic again.
:)


Thu Jul 07, 2016 10:20 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:55 am
Posts: 951
Location: UK
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
D1, a shed to aspire towards ;)

_________________
Smile, it gives your face something to do!

http://www.vimeo.com/user1214873/videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrReggub


Sat Jul 09, 2016 11:26 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 1294
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Such a massive machine and such a tiny wee work piece :D I thought they would be doing big bits . My mill wont be as grand but i do like the ability to angle the spindle . Shame Cambam doesn't do 4 axis would have to get some different Cam software . Think 360 can do this but never got on with that bit of software :(
Weather been a bit poo here hows it been at your end . Maybe you had more chance to do a bit of machining
D1


Sun Jul 10, 2016 1:47 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2009 7:55 am
Posts: 951
Location: UK
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
DISPLACEMENT 1 wrote:
Such a massive machine and such a tiny wee work piece :D I thought they would be doing big bits . My mill wont be as grand but i do like the ability to angle the spindle . Shame Cambam doesn't do 4 axis would have to get some different Cam software . Think 360 can do this but never got on with that bit of software :(
Weather been a bit poo here hows it been at your end . Maybe you had more chance to do a bit of machining
D1

A few showers here, plenty of picking beans and freezing for winter, this morning lifting early spuds for drying in the sunshine and storing later.
Cut a blank for a bearing plate this morning hope to get holes machined later today....maybe.

_________________
Smile, it gives your face something to do!

http://www.vimeo.com/user1214873/videos
http://www.youtube.com/user/MrReggub


Thu Jul 14, 2016 1:43 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 1685
Location: Merritt Island, Florida, Estates Unitas
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
I really like Fox's pan-tilt-roll head. The huge bearing at the side leaves lots of room for cables. He'll need lots of extra slack if the camera is to roll 180 or 360. Does anyone know if the Sorenson head has any special mechanism for the camera cables to turn 360 when the head rolls?

A heavy-duty rig is still useful in the digital age if you want to carry anything bigger than a DSLR. Case in point, designing for the Arri Alexa, one of the most popular of the large digital cinema cameras. Its a brick 7.5 by 7.5 by 13 inches and weighs 20 pounds before you add a lens, battery, viewfinder or anything else you need to put on it to make it work. Thats 19cm by 19cm by 33cm and a little over 9KG for those in the real world. That head looks just right for a load like that.


Thu Jul 14, 2016 4:55 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 1685
Location: Merritt Island, Florida, Estates Unitas
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
I like this mega-thread. There is lots of interesting stuff to learn here. Since some of the requests for a mold-making video were posted here, I am putting a link to the video here as well as in "off-topic". D1, thanks for letting me hijack your mega-thread once again.



Sun Jul 24, 2016 5:37 pm
Profile

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:36 pm
Posts: 408
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Hi SL,

Thank you for your clear informative video about making moulds for resin casting, etc. You should be a teacher, well explained.

I think for me this would be too much hassle, with all the preparation and stages, though I am sure it is great fun. You have the patience of a saint:)
In a way, I feel more inclined to invest in a good and solid CNC machine and design the parts in a way that it is possible to machine them with CNC.

I am still tending to go for a conventional milling machine as opposed to a router, for various reasons. This would take care of 95 per cent of part sizes, and then I'd get the really big parts done by a workshop.


Edward


Mon Jul 25, 2016 12:17 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 1685
Location: Merritt Island, Florida, Estates Unitas
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Thanks for your kind words.

The models you use to make the mold don't need so much hand finishing if you don't mind that ridgy 3-D printed look. Its also possible to make the original models out of little bits of plastic glued together with epoxy or stuck together with wax and modeling clay. The model doesn't need to be very strong. Just strong enough to hold together while you pour the liquid rubber over it. When you use the mold to cast the part, the cast one will be monolithic and very strong. I use that method a lot. It can actually be faster than drawing in autocad and its possible to line parts up with things that are to fasten to them and trace the pattern without really measuring. Its real handy for making sure two complex shapes fit as desired. And it works even if you don't have a 3-D printer.

As you know, I opted for a large CNC router. The kit just arrived and I will hopefully start the build this week but it is doubtful it will be done before I go on expedition from the 15th to the 20th. Its a very short trip this time so I will be back home and finishing the router soon. This will be the final five nights of filming for the turtle movie which has taken six years. There are just two sequences I actually need, and whatever exciting happens while I'm there will also be filmed, then thats it. I have no idea how long it will take to edit because its just me doing it. As soon as the router is finished, I will make the large roll axis gear for the pan-tilt-roll head, but that will probably happen during breaks from editing, so it should be done fairly soon.

I have made a lot of large parts in my Rostock max v2 3-D printer. The kit was $1,000 US, and it has a really big build volume. I have figured out the maths to draw HTD timing pulleys and have made some 80 tooth pulleys so far. The machine could go a bit bigger, but I plan to sell it and my other 3-D printer so I can buy "The Beast", which has an awesome build volume of 470mm by 435mm by 690mm! It can make some pretty interesting stuff which would be too large to 3-D print otherwise. The kit is "only" $2,000 US, which is a quarter the cost of the next cheapest printer with a volume this big. Anyone interested in buying a 3-D printer should check it out.

http://www.cultivate3d.com/

I understand your decision to go with a conventional CNC milling machine instead of the router. There is a lot more usable Z-axis movement and they are designed to cut metal fast. Please let us know what you finally buy as well as some of the better deals out there. I think several of us might buy CNC mills in the near future and any leads to bargain machines would be helpful.


Tue Aug 02, 2016 9:16 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 1294
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Well haven't escaped the world of camera rigs yet . Somebody is seriously after a telescopic boom rig yet again for animation so speed not a factor . Not sure how to tackle this one or if its even possible with equipment i have in the shed .
Also dubious if it would be able to do repeat moves .
Theirs lots of techno crane type things out their but not small motion control rigs

Think Gerald had a go and theirs another small rig out their but cant find vid . I would prefer a mechanical self leveling head rather than electronic but i cant think of a way of achieving this at mo .
D1


Tue Oct 18, 2016 2:45 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 1685
Location: Merritt Island, Florida, Estates Unitas
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
That looks interesting. I can see how it might help with sneaking the camera into crowded sets where a normal dolly + crane slew could bump something. I guess its also easier than moving the dolly track so it can run the fixed boom forward on an angle.

Since Rafael was interested in something similar, I looked at a construction lift with an extending boom. I expected to see little wheels between the boom sections so they could ride on the wheels as the boom extends and shrinks. There were no wheels, just some thick black Teflon pads at the corners which the boom sections slide on. I couldn't see the mechanism which extends the boom. That was all completely housed within the boom. The guy who ran the lift said it was hydraulic, but of course, any linear actuator could be used to extend the boom.

I can see how it would be difficult to use the second beam method of mechanically keeping the payload level while the boom is extending. You could have the second beam extend using a similar linear actuator system, so both extend together at the same rate. In theory it should work as long as both motors run in synch, but you'd never be absolutely sure until you tried it. Every extending crane I've seen has the P/T head compensate for boom raising and lowering. Dragonframe coordinates movements like this very well in my limited experience. For example, the little robot arm can pan the camera but it has to drive two motors in opposite directions to pan and drive the same motors in the same direction for tilt. It looks wonky when you are moving one motor at a time to program it, but when you play it back, all motors move simultaneously and the pan is dead level.

Long story short, I think you can just move all the motors one at a time while programming. If the camera is level at the start, and it is level again when you finish your programming, it will stay level throughout the run. It stays level through the actual run even though a boom rise shifts it out of level during programming and then you did a P/T tilt to level it again at the end of programming that keyframe. It does add one more job to do each time you program a boom rise or lower, but it would work. Trying to avoid this by adding a second extending boom so mechanicals keep the head level automatically would be a science experiment. Interesting if it works, but a gamble. Of course, if you make that work, everyone else will copy the mechanism and you will have changed the world. Please keep us up to date with the build. The bar keeps getting raised faster and faster these days.


Wed Oct 19, 2016 7:31 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 1294
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
No intentions to change the world . Everything as been done before sometimes its just a matter of applying it in a different way .
As you have said the most sensible way is to extend the tie rod to the same degree the boom extends . I cant see to many problems with this scheme . You can also drive a counter weight off the boom extend motor by using a left hand thread ballscrew. As the boom extends out the weight will move in a apposite direction and if a lower pitch ballscrew used it wont travel as far .
Any ways this is as far as i got . My epoxy for the CNC as just turned up so that needs to be sorted now . At least doing the CNC build means i will have a few ballscrews to play with and test the boom design :D .
[flickr]ImageTECNO 3 SKETCH copy by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]

[flickr]ImageTECNO 2 SKETCH by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]

[flickr]ImageTECNO 1 SKETCH by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]

If anybody else got any ideas let us know . I dont want to change my scheme to much but their might be a better solution.

D1


Wed Oct 19, 2016 10:20 am
Profile

Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 561
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Interesting idea...

I can see that because the lift mechanism is non-linear you are kind of compromised if you used the more orthodox method of a levelling gear on the end of the arm. If you chose that course you'd have to either replace lift with a linear mechanism or accept the compromise of an imperfect match between lift and camera level...


Sun Oct 23, 2016 10:40 pm
Profile

Joined: Wed Feb 15, 2012 3:36 pm
Posts: 408
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
It's a good concept but I can see that it would require a lot of engineering for not much reward, i.e. just to get a shorter arm at times. I do like the idea of the ballscrew though.

Ed


Sun Oct 23, 2016 11:28 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 1294
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Hi Edward not to much engineering and you do gain about 700mm of telescopic movement . Which means you can do straight vertical moves instead of arcs all the time . Also for animation that 700mm means a lot. Just get camera out of way so a animator can get in for example .
D1


Mon Oct 24, 2016 12:15 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 1294
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Just finishing off the last of this crane build their was sufficient parts left over from the rostrum camera to build a range of model movers .
Three units in all that can be configured in a lot of whys and they a are very substantial the revolve can easily take my weight.
Interesting design of the revolve which could easily be reproduced using a starter ring and pinion and a few bearings .

[flickr] Image2016-09-29 14.00.04 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]

So that current set up using all the movers is 10 channels 11 if ya bung a zoom on . So DMC was essential in this case and seems to be working well.
[flickr] Image2016-10-28 14.05.41 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
[flickr]Image2016-10-28 14.05.24 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
[flickr]Image2016-10-28 13.57.50 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
[flickr]Image2016-10-28 13.38.33 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
D1


Sat Oct 29, 2016 3:52 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 1294
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Just thought would post this link

Rig actually been used which is nice . 16 passes apparently and all lined up perfectly cant ask more than that can you .
D1


Sat Dec 03, 2016 12:46 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:38 pm
Posts: 585
Location: Exmouth, Western Australia
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
"The proof of the pudding..." as they say. Well done.

Kit


Sat Dec 03, 2016 6:33 pm
Profile

Joined: Tue Apr 09, 2013 6:49 pm
Posts: 175
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
D1,
I got an idea for a techno kind of rig. Here is a rig that Matt H made and it uses DragonFrame. Now, if you take the boom arm that extends and make it more of a counter balanced type, like a techno Crane then that fits the bill, yes/no?

https://vimeo.com/102583285

Do you see what I mean? A vertical travel rig makes things easier. Although MRMC has a rig that works like the one I am describing.


Thu Dec 22, 2016 5:15 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 1294
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Hi Doug hows it going . Yes i have seen Mats rig before its a similar solution to Geralds studio stand conversion their was a bit of discussion in that massive robot arm thread .
The only prob i have with it is the central stand as to be as high as the max height you want to reach . Then its quite a big thing to mount on a track and swing about . Even my little crane can go quite high to low without been to big in itself

[flickr]Image2013-10-17 19.54.18 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
Ya seen that before but it does show what i mean.
I also fancy extending boom because not many people have done it :D
This will all have to wait till i get mu router finished then construction on any new rigs will be a lot easier .
Have a good crimbo
D1


Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:24 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
Posts: 1294
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
Just bit of update on the life of this rig . I dropped off the model movers the other day so had a chance to see rig in studio . Forgot how big it was :o and now its been put on its base it certainly fills a small studio . They made a really nice job of the scaff base with leveling feet and drop down wheels .
[flickr]Image2017-01-16 12.37.12 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]
[flickr]Image2017-01-16 12.35.24 by D 1, on Flickr[/flickr]

A couple of other things i have come accross recently which people may be interested in .
CNC 4 you are doing relatively low backlash gearboxes and steppers https://www.cnc4you.co.uk/Stepper-Motor ... 0Nm-Output Not the cheapest but back lash is much better than the commonly available ones.
Another thing is this interesting Kickstater thing https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tr ... al-servo-m . A liitle board that tuns a normal stepper into a closed loop one . May be interesting to have a play with i get the impresion a driver is also built into the baord so this my be a little limiting on amperage etc .

D1


Wed Jan 18, 2017 3:05 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 1685
Location: Merritt Island, Florida, Estates Unitas
Post Re: New Dmoco 6 Axis Rig Driven by DMC16
WOW It really looks nice in its new home. Its definitely looking bigger on its support. Are the legs bolted to the floor somehow? Or are the movements for stopmotion so slow they don't cause the rig to react? For some reason I'm imagining it creeping out of position as many moves swing the arm in the same direction. Having no experience with such things, I'm curious. Hope they make some entertaining shows with all that stuff. The model movers are very nice as well. Somebody is all set up to do something for sure.


Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:49 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 189 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forums/DivisionCore. pozycjonowanie