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 Project Zeus 
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Post Project Zeus
Announcing Project Zeus!

Project Zeus is a control system for Chronos. and here are the design goals

1) communicate to other devices via I2c protocol
2) Built in intervalometer
3) Ability to trigger Nikon and Canon cameras via Wireless trigger
4) Ability to trigger Nikon and Canon cameras via wired remote
5) Capable of interfacing with Chronos to expand on chronos's functionality
6) Hot shoe mountable
7) Small lightweight unobtrusive package
8) Built in LIGHTNING TRIGGER

Origionally Zeus would just slave off of chronos, have a built in lightning trigger, and a basic intervalometer for standalone work, and i would also be making a seperate standalone control box that would be used to orchestrate the movement of all the parts i plan to develop.

after much though, i decided to combine these two systems into a single box.

I have always wanted a lightning trigger, and i figured this would be an excellent time to build one and add it into a standalone intervalometer that is compatible with Nikon and Canon (I may add sony to the list)



So far my testing with Zeus has been successful, Zeus and Chronos talk to eachother just fine, and are able to sync up and coordinate movement to shutter.

The IR trigger works for both Canon and Nikon, the wired remote works, but is not isolated so i just ordered a few reed relays to do this.

I will be working on the lightning trigger this weekend. And hopefully fet some time to work on the interface which will be displayed on a sparkfun serial LCD. and eveything will be controlled with a half dozen buttons.


Im taking suggestions right now, for any additional features you think would be cool, i will take into consideration and possibly build into Zeus.

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Fri Oct 07, 2011 6:44 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Wow long weekend! Spent lots of time coding.

I am using an arduino and a Sparkfun serial LCD and some buttons. Ive used the SerLCD on speedy, and so far it is working fine.

The menu system, i tried to decipher other peoples code for thier menu systems they posted online, honestly i couldnt get them to work or even figure them out so i decided to build my own from the ground up. After a lot of trial and error, i have the menus for the lightning trigger, continuous mode, velocity mode, SMS mode, those will link to the intervalometer menu. Im using mode triggers to form the behavior im requesting. Those mode behaviors will be coded and sent to the rest of the system via i2c protocol which i also verified is functional in Chronos. I honestly was worried about that part.

I have an IR sketch that works for Canon, Nikon and Sony.

There is a cable release sketch that works for canon, ill be testing nikon soon, i dont have a sony alpha so im just gonna have to research and hope unless i find somebody with one.

The lightning trigger works! it has adjustable sensitivity that will be set in Zeus, as well as a Shoot When Triggered feature to run during timelapse to snag lightning shots even if they occur between frames.

For the controls im using 6 buttons all tied to a single pin, i was playing around with somebody elses sketch but it turned to be needlessly complicated for my purposes, it does support multiple button presses so you can hit 2 buttons at once for a different trigger, sort of like a shift-key or what not.


Im trying to cram as much functionality into this as possible, i think im gonna ad a PC socket to trigger flash and built an audio trigger in as well. in case somebody wants to shoot baloons and get pics.

Ill ger a pic up of it in its skeletal state here hopefully tonight.

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Mon Oct 10, 2011 6:21 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
So here it i, Zeus in all its naked glory

Image

I got some programming time in today, here is how the menu is configured so far.
Controls

Buttons -

Mode Select Back (shift) Up Down.

-> Zeus start up screen

1) Main menu
a) Camera select, Nikon or Canon (for wireless signal)
b) Lightning Trigger
.1) lightning trigger sensitivity adjutment 50 = off (when on overrides a trigger into any program)
c) contunious mode
.1) Set Speed
.2) Set delay for intervalometer 0= off
.3) Set bulb exposure time 0=off
.4) Start or cancel.
.a) program run screen for continuous
D) Velocity ramp mode
.1) Set Speed
.2) Set delay for intervalometer 0= off
.3) Set bulb exposure time 0=off
.4) Start or cancel.
.a) program run screen for velocity ramp
E) SMS mode
.1) select amount of shots to be taken. 30-9990
.2) select delay between shots
.3) select bulb exposure (0 = off)

im still working on the other stuff, but the intervalometer function works, th menu is almost done, the camera trigger (cabled) works...

it is moving right along.


:)

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:35 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Jack, you rock!

The lightening trigger alone makes it a worthy attachment... I look forward to your (painfully for you) in depth thread on its development.

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 3:39 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
lol, i fiogure i should have the programming wrapped up here by this weekend. :)


the only thing that sucks, is that i cant really test the lightning trigger without lightning. i can get it to trigger the camera, but the arduino has a few MS delay, the camera has about a 40-50ms delay. Lightning hits for about 100ms, so it SHOULD catch it, but my speedlight only fires for 4-5ms.

i think maybe getting a video with lightning on my plasma an see if i can simlulate it that way?


or maybe get several high intensity LED's and see if i can blast them for about 50, 70, 80, 90, and 100ms and see if it triggers fast enough to catch it, then i suppose i can have a baseline of how fast it triggers.

damn, and i thought i was done tonight. hahahahaha

EDIT AGAIN:

Ok so i tried that, using an LED that lights up for a specified interval, i can hit 150ms every time, 100 most of the time, under that is sort of spotty. Ugh. I was hoping for better. its all the delays im runnin in the menus to keep it from flickering.

Quote:
A typical lightning flash lasts about a quarter of a second and consists of 3 or 4 individual discharges called strokes. Each stroke lasts a few ten thousandths of a second, although the visual appearance is longer. The "flicker" sometimes observed in lightning is due to seeing the actual strokes making up the flash.


if that is correct, i should be just fine for lightning capture.

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 5:39 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
A few months back I came across a thread somewhere, where a guy had purchased a Chinese knock-off lightning trigger. To him, this unit didn't work as advertised and it failed to trigger properly.

I'll see if I can re-find the thread, but I do remember he used a common flash fired from ~150 feet to test one manufacturers unit/sensitivity against another (which he demonstrated worked every time).

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:59 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Yah I have 30ms delays in the menus so they don't flicker. This means things happen in the code at 30ms intervals,if I fire while the delay is on, then hit a 30ms related then the camera triggers with a 30-40 Ms delay that pushes my lag up to close to 100ms.

I need to replace the delays with 30ms timers instead. It allows the code to run during the delays, I should be able to get the response back down to 50-60ms

As for the chinese trigger, I'm not sure how he can catch a speedlight burst unless it is a real shitty speedlight with a very slow discharge?

Ill have to play around,I'm feeling good though cause the sensitivity can be set to a hair trigger.

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:17 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Here are a couple links I was saving:

http://www.solorb.com/elect/lightning/index.html

Funny the name here matches:

http://diy.viktak.com/2011/03/zeus-ligh ... meras.html

And here is the thread I was talking about: See TheFantasticG

http://www.pixtus.com/forum/equipment-t ... eview.html

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:29 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
BerthaDUniverse wrote:
Here are a couple links I was saving:

http://www.solorb.com/elect/lightning/index.html

Funny the name here matches:

http://diy.viktak.com/2011/03/zeus-ligh ... meras.html

And here is the thread I was talking about: See TheFantasticG

http://www.pixtus.com/forum/equipment-t ... eview.html

Hey I know that guy. Lol. He posts on another forum I frequent

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:35 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Well there ya go, the Internet makes for a small world.

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Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:43 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
So the menu system is almsot done

I have it setup as before, full menus right down to triggering the Canon 60D and everything works.

I also added in a direction menu for IN or OUT movement. Figured that would be smart.

I also added the ability to turn on or off the optical trigger, and to select if you want it to trigger Canon, Nikon, Both, or Neither.

Im curious about running multiple timelapses at once, runnin chronos and whatever else is attached, and still slinging a signal to a stationary camera on a tripod.

im learning a lot about coding, every time i take on one of these projects i get better at this stuff, im sure if a more experienced progammer saw my code they would probably do a facepalm and rewrite it in 1/4 the amount of space with twice the flexability, but im sort of stumbling through this on my own.

I very well may trash all this code and start all over with what ive learned to write a cleaner leaner code.

I think im gonna take this to my machinists this weekend and show him what i have. Get the cogs turning in his head on building a box for me. With any luck he gets all artsy like he did with Chronos's basic control system. It would be nice if they matched in appearance.

I plan to have a 1/4 20 hole on the bottom so it can be screwed onto things sich as tripods, also there is a 1/4 20 to hotshoe adapter where it could be mounted on the cameras if wanted.

im pretty pleased with how it is going. I think im about ready to have the box built. i can always rewrite the code later.


SO for integration, basically it is going work as following with other devices, these are devices i plan to make, but if any vendors want ill work with them to make this compatible, so if somebody has an eMotimo head or something they can stick it on chronos and control both of them with Zeus.


I plan to have it only display the objects it is connected to, meaning if it is only connected to a pan head, then only pan head options will show up, if on chronos only the slide rail options will show up. Depending on what part announces itself on the i2c bus.

To control the other devices Chronos will then (for example) just send 1-100 to each device, 1 = move, and 2-100 will be control prarameters that can break down

So if chronos is connected and a pan head is connected,

Zeus = master
Chronos will introduce itself with the address of 2
Pan head will introduce itself with address of 3
Focus controller introduces itself as 4.

The conditions are programmed in chronos, it sends out the priming signals to configure the system
send (2) "34" <-- chronos knows 34 is SMS move 175 steps out.
send (3) "86" <-- pan head understands 86 means SMS pan left 12 steps.
send (4) "10" <-- zoom controller knows 0 means no movement at this time.

Then sends eacgh device "1" which each device understands MOVE NOW
Send (2) "1"
Send (2) "1"
Send (2) "1"
Send (2) "1"

Then waits the proper delay, Zeus triggers camera, finishes the interval then sends "1" again, causing each device to move.

Rinse.
Repeat.

And that is how i plan to integrate Zeus. To get it to work with something like the eMotimo, all they have to do is assign eMotimo platform a dedicated address, then program in the triggers on thier side, send me a list of what trigger does what, then i code that into Zeus's menu. It is mostly coding, for hardware they only need to add about 4 bucks worth of extra material. The i2c buffer chip and RJ-11s

Any thoughts on this?




I gotta be honest here, i may end up selling Zeus. I am putting Chronos out there for anyone who wants to build, I am not selling it cause i wont compete well against DP or Kessler because it would be priced right up with the others,. yet it only has 36 inches of travel. I really dont want it to compete with those systems, it is intended for ultra portability and flexability and that can be easily transported to hard to reach areas.

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Fri Oct 14, 2011 6:41 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Jack, since you seem to be touching on it: I really don't know how it would fit but, I (seem) to have a different workflow than some, as I almost always shoot more than one camera at a time.

Before you ask why, let me explain:
1) I often do large field scenes (for multiprojector installations like museum walls or planetariums)
2) When the scene has a lot going on, I'll shoot different simultaneous scenes, often with different lenses, to allow me to edit together what would become a temporally bound series of shots.
3) Since I'm too cheap to buy a system to pull my zooms, using multicam, I can attain those "expensive lens" shots with 2 or 3 cameras pointed at the same scene, and edit them together with AE pulls later on.
4) Then there is the whole stereo (twincam) issue

So, to someone like me, having the ability to trigger multiple cameras is really important, any chance you are thinking along the same lines.

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Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:00 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
BerthaDUniverse wrote:
Jack, since you seem to be touching on it: I really don't know how it would fit but, I (seem) to have a different workflow than some, as I almost always shoot more than one camera at a time.

Before you ask why, let me explain:
1) I often do large field scenes (for multiprojector installations like museum walls or planetariums)
2) When the scene has a lot going on, I'll shoot different simultaneous scenes, often with different lenses, to allow me to edit together what would become a temporally bound series of shots.
3) Since I'm too cheap to buy a system to pull my zooms, using multicam, I can attain those "expensive lens" shots with 2 or 3 cameras pointed at the same scene, and edit them together with AE pulls later on.
4) Then there is the whole stereo (twincam) issue

So, to someone like me, having the ability to trigger multiple cameras is really important, any chance you are thinking along the same lines.


yeah, i could add muiltple trigger outputs. I plave PLENTY of pins available. Maybe go with 3? I could even code them so they could split out to seperate intervalometers as well have them behave Independently or behave as one.

furthermore, i could take one of those jacks and have the option to flip it around as an input to read shutter speed for possible bulb ramping.

anything else you can think of people might appreciate?

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Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:12 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
I'll need to think about it, but I wanted to see if you had seen this: http://openmoco.org/node/398

As usual, nice work.

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Fri Oct 14, 2011 9:17 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
i could certainly incorperate something like that into Zeus.

The trigger port im using right now is separate from the rest, im using a small relay to trigger the shutter. maybe do 2 pairs of jacks, keep them all isolated from eachother, and have like group a and group b, configurable to run on seperate intervalometers, or on the same one.

actually i think that might be pretty handy to have.

I have a feeling im going to rewrite a lot of my code, which is probably a good idea, i have learned a lot since i have started and while everything works great there are a few things i think i could have approached smarter.

So,
Dual Intervalometers
4 trigger ports
2 IR transmitters\

That was a good idea, if you think of anything else you would like to see on it let me know.

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Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:55 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
well i finally got some coding time in.

much happier with how it is setup this time.

ive included 4 seperate intervalometers, continuous, sms, verlocity ramped, optical trigger on/off, camera selection for the IR triggers, and some other junk like backlight display on/off and ugh my brain is tired, im tired, time for this guy to go to bed.

i still have to set up options to map out the intervalometers to the ports and wireless IR transmitters.


if anyone can think of something really cool to add, let me know.

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Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:25 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Hey Mister...

What would be nice is a physical "kill or sleep switch" port that would shut down the system when it hits a switch at the end of the rail.

It would be nice to help save the battery.

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Wed Oct 19, 2011 3:43 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
interesting. i am sure i could implement something like that. chronos already has some limit switches on either end. they work on continuous and SMS shooting, the velocity ramping does not use blocking but turns 700 threads then stops. im sure i could work something out.

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Wed Oct 19, 2011 4:51 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
AHRHRHRHRHRHhh

sometimes i really hate writing code

running into a snafu with the intervalometers, will work on it again later. made some headway in other ways though..

ugh

brain hurts

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Wed Oct 19, 2011 7:32 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
SO i re-wrote the code for Zeus, im much happier, i ran into an issue with multiple intervalometers, my code was getting a bit crazy, finally io took a step back and re-looked at it, and i finally got it.

running multiple intervalometers was not the problem,, the issue is i wanted to be able to do bulb control on each one, which makes things a lot trickier.

however, running 4 separate intervalometers with bulb control on each is no problem now. I plan to do it as all 4 ports to a single intervalometer, splitting two ports to two intervalometers, or a single intervalometer for each port.

the diosplay is pretty cool too, when the bulb display is running the interval countdown is replaced with a milisecond timer showing how long it has been exposing.

also all 4 ports will be isolated circuit wise from the rest.

its going well!

now i am looking at the parts needed for the sound trigger, as well as a manually controlled SMS system for stop-motion photography.

may add in a motion trigger as well to work as a trap-cam. might as well pack it as full of features as i possible can

i need to keep expansion in mind, but so far things are moving right along.


Still open for recommendations for features.

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Sun Oct 23, 2011 8:28 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
i think its just you and me following this thread berthaduniverse

anyways, i have finally settled on the motion sensor and sound sensor.

hope to order them next friday...


so..

lightning trigger
sound trigger
motion trigger
two IR emitters, Nikon and Canon compatible. looking to add sony
4 shutter ports that can be used individually (4 intervalometers) or as a splitter to a single intervalometer.
i2c enabled, capable of controlling chronos
backlight control


im thinking of doing port assignment, so for example if you want to run a pair of ports for timelapse with one port, then set another to be used as a trap cam for motion, another set for lightning.

maybe an alarm? So if it is setup to the camera, and yer crashed out in yer tent, and some jerk wants to steal your stuff, that if it gets picked up or moved it triggers a lout alarm?



what else can i stuff in this thing?

i have a feeling here soon im going to re-write all the code again. Everytime i do i seem to get a more streamlined code.

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Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:11 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Well, you might want to add a faucet and sink! :-)

From the perspective of some of those features, I'd say I'll have to see it flow charted to see how it all operates, The biggest problem with increased complexity, is always usability. I think the list is good, but how about the menu system? Will it require a laptop? or will it be a text-driven menu system as shown in the early pics.

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Mon Oct 24, 2011 8:54 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
BerthaDUniverse wrote:
Well, you might want to add a faucet and sink! :-)

From the perspective of some of those features, I'd say I'll have to see it flow charted to see how it all operates, The biggest problem with increased complexity, is always usability. I think the list is good, but how about the menu system? Will it require a laptop? or will it be a text-driven menu system as shown in the early pics.



No laptop required! All this stuff can be done off the 16x2 lcd with tree logic. you use up and down to make adjustments, select to continue, back to backup. next to select through different modes.

the logic flows sort of like this

6 buttons, = NEXT, SELECT, BACK, SHIFT, UP DOWN

Back always returns you one page back. Pressing two buttons at once yields different values so you can use the Shift key to get different results.

Buttons = Next, Sel, Back, Shift, Up, Down

You start out with the following and use next and back to scroll through, select to select

1 SMS mode
2 Continuous mode
3 Velocity ramping mode
4 Intervalomter mode
5 Option mode

Option 1, 2, 3 all work pretty much the same.
1) choose speed, (or break count in SMS mode)
2) select direction In or Out.
3) adjust intervalometer delay, if you have more than one intervalometer enabled it will allow you to set different speeds for different intervalometers. When using chronos the SMS interval is determined by the delay in Intervalometer 1.
4) bulb delay adjustment (no more than intervaometer speed - 3 seconds to give SMS time to move and stop. Once again, select bulb delay, then if more than one intervalometer is selected you can set different bulb delays for each intervalometer.
5) hit select and the program starts. The display reflects the movement system chosen (velocity, SMS, continuous) the delay between shots, a countdown until next shot, and a counter of how many shots have been taken.
If using a Bulb exposure, during the actual bulb exposure it shows a millisecond timer climbing until it the bulb exposure ends, then is replaced with a timer showing when the next shot will be taken.
using the shift key increases the adjustment to +/- 15 seconds rather than 1 second, so it wont take forever to add a 5 minute delay in or whatnot.
while this is running pressing up or down turns the backlight on or off.


Intervalometer menu basically just skips the movement controls and goes right to the intervalometer.

Options menu
1) lightning trigger, choose sensitivity 5 through 50, 50 = OFF. it starts on 50, so moving it up or down increases or decreases the sensitivity level, as soon as the sensitivity level is OFF of 50, meaning 5-49 the lightning trigger is active.
The lightning trigger WILL fire during a timelapse program if enabled. Might make for some interesting effects on thunderstorm timelapses, a bit of a jerky violent flash-fest.

The sound trigger and motion trigger will be setup the same way in the options menu, however, im going to try to have these triggers assignable to different ports.
I will probably see about adding a delay to the sound trigger, so you can make adjustments for high-speed trick photography, just gotta connect a PC cable from one of the ports to a flashes PC input, shut off the lights, go with a bulb exposure, shoot a baloon or break a lightbulb with a hammer, the noise should trigger the flash and burn the image on the running sensor.


2) IR trigger on off, up/down 1 = nikon, 2 = canon, 3 = both, 4 = off (default)
I am putting two IR triggers on the front, im working on making each one selectable between nikon, canon, sony, pentax. but right now one is hardcoded Nikon and one hardcoded Canon.
once again assignable to a specific port if wanted.


3) Intervalometer settings, up/down to select Single, Dual, Quad.
If using single all 4 ports will behave off a single intervalomer
if using Dual, ports 1+2 are on group 1, and 3+4 on group 2.
if using quad, then each port runs thier own intervalometer.


ill probably put an alarm trigger in this menu as well, and synch it up with the motion detector, and if a certain threshold is reached have it alarm. if i have it re-image itself every interval it should no go off, however if somebody picks up your equipment and starts moving off with it, the alarm should sound.


so far it goes quick, from turning Zeus on it takes under 10 seconds to crank through the menu system and have 2 seperate intervalometers up and working.


this is something i plan to try to develop and sell as a product, where as chronos was open source, i wouldnt mind a little pay on this one. I want this thing to be like a swiss army knife for photography. So even if you dont have a Chronos that this would still be a handy as hell thing to have. if you are interested when im done ill build you one for the cost of parts if you want to help me with beta testing.

like i said ill probably write a lot of this again over from scratch with what ive learned this time around. I want it to be simple, intuitive and easy to use.

Porbably go with a main menu of
1) Intervalometer
2) Chronos control
3) Trigger Options

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Mon Oct 24, 2011 10:36 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Jack Ripper wrote:
Yah I have 30ms delays in the menus so they don't flicker. This means things happen in the code at 30ms intervals,if I fire while the delay is on, then hit a 30ms related then the camera triggers with a 30-40 Ms delay that pushes my lag up to close to 100ms.

I need to replace the delays with 30ms timers instead. It allows the code to run during the delays, I should be able to get the response back down to 50-60ms

As for the chinese trigger, I'm not sure how he can catch a speedlight burst unless it is a real shitty speedlight with a very slow discharge?

Ill have to play around,I'm feeling good though cause the sensitivity can be set to a hair trigger.


Hey Jack,

I also built a menu from scratch and the best thing I did with my code was the LCD functions, so what I did was write a function which calls LCD.print... When I get home I'll post you the code, it's incredibly useful and will allow you to do away with your delay.


Wed Oct 26, 2011 11:48 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
nilsen wrote:
Jack Ripper wrote:
Yah I have 30ms delays in the menus so they don't flicker. This means things happen in the code at 30ms intervals,if I fire while the delay is on, then hit a 30ms related then the camera triggers with a 30-40 Ms delay that pushes my lag up to close to 100ms.

I need to replace the delays with 30ms timers instead. It allows the code to run during the delays, I should be able to get the response back down to 50-60ms

As for the chinese trigger, I'm not sure how he can catch a speedlight burst unless it is a real shitty speedlight with a very slow discharge?

Ill have to play around,I'm feeling good though cause the sensitivity can be set to a hair trigger.


Hey Jack,

I also built a menu from scratch and the best thing I did with my code was the LCD functions, so what I did was write a function which calls LCD.print... When I get home I'll post you the code, it's incredibly useful and will allow you to do away with your delay.



That would be awesome!

I did manage to move my serial output to another pin so i dont have to hook/unhook the lcd every time i upload, the code im writing is working fairly well to reduce flicker but i have not really fully eliminating it at the last 3 characters. So I still have a slight delay in it, so i am certainly open to suggestions!

So i have ordered up the parts i need to add motion, sound, and vibration sensors to setup a trap cam,sound trigger, and theft alarm.

except the buzzer i need to find one of those.

and if possible, im going to try bulb ramping.

i should still have enough pins leftover for an input from a PC sync cable.

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Thu Oct 27, 2011 6:07 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Jack, you know what would be "God-Like" would be a method of 5-10-20 frame average ramping via feedback from an incident meter (if they still make them).

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Thu Oct 27, 2011 12:50 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
BerthaDUniverse wrote:
Jack, you know what would be "God-Like" would be a method of 5-10-20 frame average ramping via feedback from an incident meter (if they still make them).


I have no idea what that means but ill figure it out and look into it. Is it used for general photography or timelapse?

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Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:06 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
OK I googled it. Funny I was spending a few hours earlier looking at adding a light meter based on tsl230r for light meter purposes and possibly bulb cramping based off ambient light. Is that sort of like what you mean?

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Thu Oct 27, 2011 4:12 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Good morning mister:

I have a few light meters left over from my view camera days back in the late 70s, and I came across them the other day, and I wondered to myself if there could be a way to use them (either an incident or spot model) to "live meter" a TL shot, giving feedback to a program that would then average out the lighting variation and automatically adjust a bulb ramp.

If you have a Little Bulb Ramper, then you should be familiar with how you use the cameras histogram to ramp upcoming shots. To me, this seems close to using a live meter to determine where/how upcoming shots should be exposed.

So I thought this tedious process could be automated via feed back from a light meter, so the photographer wouldn't need to actively monitor the light conditions throughout a shot... Obviously, the shots would need to be averaged to prevent flickering due the things like cloud movement, hence a program that could have an averaging variable.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Nt ... Search=yes

I hope I'm making sense...

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Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:05 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
yes you make perfect sense,

first ill have to see if i can build an accurate light meter. Right now Zeus is using a mini photocell which is more than enough for its current demands, but for a good light meter i suppose i should start with a light-to-frequency converter. My understanding is they give a far more accurate reading.

next figure out how to convert the frequency to LUX, then LUX to convert up to ISO, aperature, and shutter variations

once that is done start looking into implementing it to automate a ramp, but give ad an adjustment variable as to how many stops variation from beginning to end

what i think would help is recoding sunrise and sunsets data from the meter to get a baseline of exposure, then start doing lots of night shooting to get used to different areas such as city, black zones, new moon, no moon, etc, to come up with basic suggestions on ramping amount

which means i need to build a datalogger too. I figured at some point i would have to figure that out.

Honestly it sounds like a heck of a challange, but i can not see any reason it would be impossible. I have seen other attempts at this, so far i have not seen anyone succesfully do it. usually they just give up. I have a tendancy to get locked on a goal and track it like a bloodhound untill i figure it out.

ill order up a few parts and start breadboarding out a concept device, ill keep it seperate from zeus while im learning it, once i get it figured out ill implement it.

I wonder how well it would work if i got a database of exposure adjustments through a bunch of sunsets and had it able to recognize which sunset curve best fit what it was experiencing for the smoothest transition with a target goal of a specific stop to quit the ramping. Use a weighted variable for fune tuning...

for trickier conditions it could probably run on a pre-planned program. I mean, the end goal is to have a properly exposed night shot, which is going to be different from one location to another. Dark skies in a dark zone will have a much different end exposure target than an inner city scene.

im getting ahead of myself, let me see first if i can build a reliable light meter.

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Fri Oct 28, 2011 6:22 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Here you go...

So this function takes 4 variables, first a string such as a description, second an integer which would presumably be a value relating to the string, third, a string on the second line, forth another integer describing the string.

Code:

Code:
void printLCD (char desc1[15], long line1, char desc2[15], long line2)
{
  byte charLen = 10;
  if (currentlyPrinted1 != line1+line2)
  {
    charLen = strlen(desc1);
    lcd.clear();
    lcd.setCursor(0, 0);
    lcd.print(desc1);
    if (line1 > -50)
    {
      lcd.setCursor(charLen, 0);
      lcd.print(line1);
    }
    charLen = strlen(desc2);
    lcd.setCursor(0, 1);
    lcd.print(desc2);
    if (line2 > -50)
     {
       lcd.setCursor(charLen, 1);
       lcd.print(line2);
     }
    currentlyPrinted1 = line1 + line2;
  }
}


Basically it's quite simple, if the value of the integer hasn't changed since last print, don't print anything. If you don't want to use the second integer pass in -50 or less as the second arg.
An example;

Code:
printLCD ("Press Select to return", -100,"     home", -100);


That will print on first line "Press Select to return"
on second line: " home"


another example:

Code:
printLCD("Steps ",manTotalDistance, "Next - Dist per shot", -100);


This prints "Steps " + manTotalDistance
second line "Next - Dist per shot"

another function with is basically the same but expands to allow 2 variables on each line (2 strings + 2 variables)

Code:
void printLCDSetPosNew(char descA1[12], int lineA1, char descA2[12], int lineA2, char descA3[5], char descB1[12], int lineB1, char descB2[12], int lineB2, char descB3[5])
{
  byte charLen;
  if (currentlyPrinted1 != lineA1+lineA2+lineB1+lineB2)
  {
    lcd.clear();
    lcd.setCursor(0, 0);
    charLen = strlen(descA1);
    lcd.print(descA1);
    if (lineA1 > -50)
    {
      lcd.setCursor(charLen, 0);
      lcd.print(lineA1);
      charLen += intLen(lineA1);
    }
   
    lcd.setCursor(charLen, 0);
    lcd.print(descA2);
    charLen += strlen(descA2);
   
    if (lineA2 > -50)
    {
      lcd.setCursor(charLen, 0);
      lcd.print(lineA2);
      charLen += intLen(lineA2);
    }
   
    lcd.setCursor(charLen, 0);
    lcd.print(descA3);
   
    lcd.setCursor(0, 1);
    charLen = strlen(descB1);
    lcd.print(descB1);
    if (lineB1 > -50)
    {
      lcd.setCursor(charLen, 1);
      lcd.print(lineB1);
      charLen += intLen(lineB1);
    }
   
    lcd.setCursor(charLen, 1);
    lcd.print(descB2);
    charLen += strlen(descB2);
   
    if (lineB2 > -50)
    {
      lcd.setCursor(charLen, 1);
      lcd.print(lineB2);
      charLen += intLen(lineB2);
    }
   
    lcd.setCursor(charLen, 1);
    lcd.print(descB3);
     
    currentlyPrinted1 = (int)lineA1+(int)lineA2+(int)lineB1+(int)lineB2;
  }
}

byte intLen(long intIn)
{
  byte valLen=0;
  if(intIn > 99999)
     valLen = 6;
  if(intIn > 9999)
     valLen = 5;
  else if(intIn > 999)
     valLen = 4;
  else if(intIn > 99)
     valLen = 3;
  else if(intIn > 9)
     valLen = 2;
  else
   valLen = 1;
   return valLen;
}


So it allows more complex printing in the first and second line.

Example:

Code:
printLCDSetPosNew("ms ", manMoveDelay, " s.l ", manSequenceLength, "m", "Next - mictostep", -100 , "", -100, "");


Both these functions avoid flicker and are very useful imho.
Shout if questions!

Cheers,

Nils


Fri Oct 28, 2011 1:05 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
TA DA!!!!!!!

My project partner has been working on a house recently, and ive been working on another chronos build for a guy in canada, but he finally put together a skeleton for me to use to prototype Zeus so i can get it off the breadboard.

he did not seem happy with how it looked, but after i told him i was probably going to drill a buttload of holes in it and modify it several times he seemed ok with the way it looked.

I have the LCD wired, buttons wired, RBBB arduino hooked up, but i have not had time to install the light/sound/motion sensors, the relays or the output ports. Also, its missing a port, so one of the outputs is going to be an input, but for this stage of development this will be fine.

however im hesitant to work on the menu systems yet, i have a 20x4 LCD that should be here in a few days, as well as 2 different I2c/SPI backpacks for the LCD i can try out.

I really want some more display real estate.

Anyway, here it is sitting on the 2nd Project Chronos rail, pic with my crappy phone camera cause im too lazy to grab one of my DSLRs i have laying around.
Image


IM going to be pretty busy the next few weeks, but hopefully i can get enough programming time in to get the code worked out how i want it. I have a lot to do.

ALSO, bit of news people may like. I have been in contact with a few other manufacturers of moco equipment about developing a communication standard which can be used to integrate systems from multiple vendors. So far the feedback i have recieved has been pretty positive and everyone seems to be on board. While it is pre-mature to make any sort of announcements, so far the feedback has been relativly positive.

Additionally, i will be adding moco-engine triggers in ZEUS that can be programmed for any DIY'ers if they want to make thier own gear that is compatible with ZEUS.

In the meantime i need to get the new programming started for Zeus, once that is done redesign a more compact and better laid out version and get a few beta testing models sent out to some volunteers.

then come the conference calls with feedback, suggestions, then revisions, new code deployed, etc.

it should be a sweet little system when it is finished.

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Mon Nov 28, 2011 7:28 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
good stuff, looks like the project is coming along nicely. Looks quite bulky at the minute, but for a first prototype I shouldnt be moaning!

Are you planning on using the same setup as chronos then (in terms of the rail, screw etc).

that open interface thing sounds like a really good idea too, albeit being an electronics noob I'm not sure how your thinking of doing it! Are you proposing everyone includes a standard connector, or writes parts of their firmware in a specific way?

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Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:50 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
agour wrote:
good stuff, looks like the project is coming along nicely. Looks quite bulky at the minute, but for a first prototype I shouldnt be moaning!

Are you planning on using the same setup as chronos then (in terms of the rail, screw etc).

that open interface thing sounds like a really good idea too, albeit being an electronics noob I'm not sure how your thinking of doing it! Are you proposing everyone includes a standard connector, or writes parts of their firmware in a specific way?


yeah this one is intentionally big. mainly to give myself working room inside the enclosure to add the various elements, also as changes need to be made having it larger makes it easier. The final production ZEUS is going to be very minimal on size and compact.

The ability to control chronos is going to be one small part of what Zeus will do. Im trying to develop it as a sort of swiss army knife of photography tools.

it will be able to plug into Chronos and you will be able to get far more fine tune performance. The control head on Chronos was minimalist because i did not like how adding a display slowed down the motor. So a few simple buttons and dials give it a useful amount of functionality.

ZEUS will expand the control because i dont have to bog down Zeus's microcontroller with the stepper driver. Instead i just set the controls with Zeus and let the controller in Chronos do the dirty work.

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Mon Nov 28, 2011 11:41 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
So ive been playing around a bit more.

Light/motion/sound sensors all work pretty well and are very straight forward.

I upped the ante on the screen however and picked up a 20x4 LCD display. In order to NOT use all the pins i picked up an i2c backpack for the LCD.

So far it seems to work well, and it has some very interesting graphical functionality and the ability to hook up 8 buttons, or to use a 16 button keypad. SO i may offload the buttons on there as well.

The only problem is the refresh rate seems to suffer when doing several things at once. Just counting milliseconds it is pretty darn quick, but if i run multiple counters it slows drastically. So as with the 16x2 Serial LCD i would basically just keep re-drawing the same messages on the screen constantly, i cant do that with this one.
I ASSUME THIS IS A PROBLEM WITH THE REFRESH RATE AND NOT WITH THE SPEED OF i2c

I think i have worked my way around that problem.

So over the next week or two i will be building out the user interface, and if i have time ill start working on the manual bulb ramping engine. I have some ideas i want to try with that part.

as for the automatic bulb ramping engine, im still looking into that one. The question is how to do it if clouds are causing variations on the light meter. I almost wonder if i should just try to datalog as many bulb ramping routines as i can, then find an average for each lighting situation, such as sunny, cloudy, overcast, with target variables such as city lights, black zone, moon, no moon, etc.

i have no doubt i can develop an automated bulb ramping system, the problem is anything short of perfection is virtually useless.

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Wed Dec 07, 2011 9:48 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Jack you're awesome... I'm going to name my non-existent kids after you!

Anyway, as to your comment: "i have no doubt i can develop an automated bulb ramping system, the problem is anything short of perfection is virtually useless."

There are some pretty good image processing tools out there, so something close might be more than enough...

Thanks for all your work and your voracity in posting updates.

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Wed Dec 07, 2011 5:24 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
is that way of saying shuttup? lol

just kidding

ya know the more i look at this stuff, the more i think automated bulb ramping shouldnt be this difficult, and i am starting to wonder if adding a light meter is not really the answer.

i wonder if setting sort of a script would be the best answer.

Follow me on this and let me know if this makes sense.

i might be mistaken because of the tilt of the earth, but a sunrise and sunset should take about the same amount of time any given day over a majority of the world. with exception being extreme north and south. but there should be a nice fat goldilocks band around the earth.

if i can get some good solid bulb ramps done and datalog the time, and exposure length, i imagine the adjustment curve should be nearly identical when compensating for number of exposures over length of time shot. so if logging 2 hours before sunset, then 2 hours after complete dark, log what time sundown is each day off the weather channel, and make sure the DS1307 RTC is synced up timewise.

then by plotting the exposure curve, and noting exactly what time on that curve was sunset, i SHOULD be able to come up with a basic exposure script where all you do is enter the exact time of sunset per your local region.

i would have to do ramps with various compositions because the end ramp will be different if you want city lights or milkyway, or whatnot, with the ability to put in a few stop adjustment for full moon/ new moon, or whatnot.

Then, all you should have to do for a nice smooth bulb ramp is tell ZEUS what time the sun sets. Then add any modifiers to modify for light pollution.

then just let er rip.



to me, that seems like the best way to do an automated bulb ramp, it will not be confused by clouds, or whatnot.

Thoughts on this?

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Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:04 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
in fact, might not only be able to datalog to determine how the sunset works and the speed it happens, but when you are setting up you tell the camera when the sunset is, then meter and take a shot which the camera can look at the shutter speed, you change to bulb and the ramper will verify about where you are in the program, and take over. You could run a timelapse inj manual controll for a whole day, then a few hours before sunset enter the parameters and flip the camera to B and get a seamless take over.


I just checked out some dataloggers, 20 bucks, plus free software to plot out the data.
Im going to keep going with ZEUS as it is, and do this as a side project, the cool thing is it will require no additional hardware, all ill have to do is update the program.

no wonder i havent been laid in 3 weeks.

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Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:20 pm
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Post Re: Project Zeus
Jack Ripper wrote:
TA DA!!!!!!!


ALSO, bit of news people may like. I have been in contact with a few other manufacturers of moco equipment about developing a communication standard which can be used to integrate systems from multiple vendors. So far the feedback i have recieved has been pretty positive and everyone seems to be on board. While it is pre-mature to make any sort of announcements, so far the feedback has been relativly positive.


Jack,

Have you been following the openmoco libraries thread on OM? I'm surprised you're working this separately, as we've already got a functioning model of the MoCoBus protocol, with client and master libraries built? It already solves complex data passing, two-way communication, and uses an industry standard transport layer (RS-485, like ModBus, which allows for much longer hauls than i2c) and supports currently 57.6k data transmission rates and solves timing issues between masters and slaves using a separate bus, but can certainly be integrated to handle timing synchronization using the existing bus. Heck, we've even got a bootloader that lets you upload sketches over the same bus via the arduino IDE. (No need for separate serial connection.) There are already three devices currently being designed (by three vendors) around this protocol, handling USB camera control, modular motion control, and DMX lighting - I'd hope that we could integrate our efforts rather than have two competing ones =)

If you haven't looked at them yet, the library documentation is here: http://openmoco.org/docs/OMLibraries/index.html and the full source code is available on the OM SVN repo (in OpenMocoComponents/nanoMoCo) The only thing that's missing from the current implementation is broadcast traffic, which I'll be implementing shortly. I'd love to have anyone assisting who would like to - especially on feedback for specific protocol needs, etc.

!c


Thu Dec 08, 2011 11:08 am
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Post Re: Project Zeus
tmp-shutterdrone wrote:
Jack Ripper wrote:
TA DA!!!!!!!


ALSO, bit of news people may like. I have been in contact with a few other manufacturers of moco equipment about developing a communication standard which can be used to integrate systems from multiple vendors. So far the feedback i have recieved has been pretty positive and everyone seems to be on board. While it is pre-mature to make any sort of announcements, so far the feedback has been relativly positive.


Jack,

Have you been following the openmoco libraries thread on OM? I'm surprised you're working this separately, as we've already got a functioning model of the MoCoBus protocol, with client and master libraries built? It already solves complex data passing, two-way communication, and uses an industry standard transport layer (RS-485, like ModBus, which allows for much longer hauls than i2c) and supports currently 57.6k data transmission rates and solves timing issues between masters and slaves using a separate bus, but can certainly be integrated to handle timing synchronization using the existing bus. Heck, we've even got a bootloader that lets you upload sketches over the same bus via the arduino IDE. (No need for separate serial connection.) There are already three devices currently being designed (by three vendors) around this protocol, handling USB camera control, modular motion control, and DMX lighting - I'd hope that we could integrate our efforts rather than have two competing ones =)

If you haven't looked at them yet, the library documentation is here: http://openmoco.org/docs/OMLibraries/index.html and the full source code is available on the OM SVN repo (in OpenMocoComponents/nanoMoCo) The only thing that's missing from the current implementation is broadcast traffic, which I'll be implementing shortly. I'd love to have anyone assisting who would like to - especially on feedback for specific protocol needs, etc.

!c



That would be awesome!

When i first started looking into timelapse i got sort of ticked off, because i saw few vendors, many DIY systems, and zero standard for communication. I went with i2c because it is simple, and most DIY enthusiests with minimal arduino experience can introduce it into thier own DIY designs and hopefully integrate them with other systems. my other goal was to develop multiple motion control options and systems that are independantly intelligent, with that simple commands passed back and forth should offer whatever integration is needed.

I agree there is no point in having a VCR vs Betamax, if i can implement it i would be happy to do so. My biggest stumbling block is most of the code on your site is nearly undecipherable for me. I am good at engineering my own code, but cant for the life of me reverse engineer a lot of more complex coding because i have so much to learn.

ill take a look over there, and i would be happy to use it if i can figure it out.

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