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 Little Bramper and Two Cameras 
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Joined: Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:14 pm
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Post Little Bramper and Two Cameras
Hi,

I was hoping to use a Little Bramper to fire two cameras and was wondering if anyone has had success with such a setup?

I can use the same splitter and cables to fire my two Canon 5D II's with a Pocket Wizzard, so my cables seem to be fine. The Little Bramper works awesome with one camera, so there doesn't seem to be a problem there. But, when I connect a second camera, I don't have any success. Sometimes one still works, other times, one of the cameras will fire away non-stop. I have tried just about every order of powering up and connecting the devices.

Any ideas? Thanks so much.


Wed Mar 23, 2011 3:19 pm
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
I tried bramping 2 cams once - also 5D2s - but had issues with ISO reciprocity, so didn't take it further. Regular bulb ramping worked ok, though. The problem with reciprocity is that only 1 cam is monitored (via flash port), so only that cam has accurate bulb timing. I could see the ISO steps in the footage from the unmonitored cam. Was also challenging to change the ISO on 2 cams within the gap between intervals window.

Not sure what your problem could be. I used a simple stereo headphone splitter. Were you using Liveview?

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Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:11 pm
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
Thanks for your response! I wasn't using LiveView,and had a simple splitter as well. I was hoping I was missing something simple. I was thinking ISO stepping was going to be a challenge - but I can't get the second camera to even fire.


Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:18 pm
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
Ron,

Not sure if this is the issue, but a funny thing happens if you have power saving enabled. When two cameras are connected like this, and one goes to sleep, the other camera starts firing. I've seen this on my 350Ds.

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Wed Mar 23, 2011 4:21 pm
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
Hi Tom,

Thanks!

I seemed to have figured out the problem - if I hold the connector on the cord and splitter that leads to the camera that won't fire in just the right way, they both work! So maybe splitting the signal is weakening it too much? Is there something I can do to improve the connectivity - maybe I need to buy a better cord and splitter? Is there some kind of gel I can put on the connections that improve the connection?

Thanks - awesome device by the way!


Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:06 pm
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Location: Amelia Island, Florida
Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
You can buy Electronic Contact Cleaner in a spray can at any Radio Shack. Spray a little bit on the plug, and plug it in and out a few times to clean the socket it plugs into. It's non conductive, but I wouldn't spray it directly in any holes in the camera.

If that doesn't fix it, you may have a bad solder connection or broken wire in the cable you have to hold to make it work.

I don't know the equipment you're using, but we used to use splitter cables to control two or more radios from one computer port, and we always used diodes in the cable, so that the signal from the controller could go to any of the radios, but the radios couldn't "see" each other and get confused.


Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:20 pm
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
Thanks Jim,

I have all kinds of problems with one camera triggering the other - I think a diode would solve that problem - I didn't realize that might be an option. I'm just using a simple splitter. I'm guessing Radio Shack might have something a 3.5mm splitter with diodes? I'll look when I buy the contact cleaner.

I remember having similar problems splitting my Pocket Wizard signal - with the pocket wizard, I was able to lengthen the signal and that solved the problem.

As you may guess, I no nothing about electronics.


Wed Mar 23, 2011 7:38 pm
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Location: Amelia Island, Florida
Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
I doubt Radio Shack has cables with diodes, probably have to make them yourself.

Like I said, I'm not familiar with the Little Bramper, but the key is what signal needs to go where on what wire. If the camera is talking back to the controller (two way conversation) and it's software isn't designed for multiple cameras, the diode idea probably won't fix the problem.

But if the controller is simply talking to the camera (one way conversation), it might solve your issue.

What we need is somebody that's familiar with the controller and has a schematic to chime in.


Wed Mar 23, 2011 8:45 pm
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
I think the issue here is simply the two remote sockets being electrically connected together. There may be some sort of instability that's causing the strange behaviour. It's odd, though, that it works for Colin. It works for my 350Ds.

A diode may solve the problem, but what would be ideal is an optocoupled splitter, like the one shutterdrone is making.

It may also be a connector issue; although you've tested the cables, are you sure the cable-splitter connection is sound? The cables I currently have are of dubious quality. Generally the cable quality has fluctuated a lot, mostly in the downwards direction. Will be looking for some wholesale brand name cables ...

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Thu Mar 24, 2011 5:16 am
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
astronomerroyal wrote:
I think the issue here is simply the two remote sockets being electrically connected together.

Tom, what are the chances this connection could harm the cameras? I got a little worried and stopped testing. Was planning to try again when shutterdrone releases his gadget.

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Thu Mar 24, 2011 7:15 am
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
Thanks Tom,

I went out and picked up a gold plated splitter and problem solved!

The optocoupled splitter sounds like the ticket, but in the mean time, at least I'm in business. Thanks again.


Thu Mar 24, 2011 9:18 am
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
I was excited to get both cameras firing. But now that I'm reviewing the footage, I see that the images from the camera without the PC cord - the "following" camera, has a ton of flicker. The exposure seems to oscillate back and forth although it does get better with time.

The footage from the main camera is really cool - what an awesome tool!

I'm trying some better cables, but now when I plug the cameras together, the shutter on one or the other seems to open. When I do get everything connected with both shutters closed, I can't get the bramper to fire. I don't remember this problem - don't know if I have changed the order in which I plug things together (although I have tried every possibility), or if I have now damaged by Little Bramper.

Thought I would add an update in case anyone else has tried this with success. Thanks!


Fri Apr 29, 2011 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
Ron, it's difficult to imagine how the camera triggers could be damaged. Confirm they're okay by using each individually on the bramper, or with another device. The bramper uses an optocoupler, so it's not electrically connected to the camera's trigger circuit.

Since I get asked about dual outputs quite frequently, I've decided to make a Little Stereo Bramper. It'll look like Little Bramper but most of the low level stuff is taken from Medium Bramper. The two cameras will be isolated and monitored separately. It'll address a couple of other feature requests regarding external triggering.

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Sat Apr 30, 2011 5:52 am
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
Hi Tom,

Tested the Little Bramper on 1 camera and all seems fine.

Wow, a stereo Little Bramper would be awesome! I was just going to order a second one with the hopes of mirroring my actions, but this would be much preferred. Put me on the top of the list when you have made ready! Thanks a lot!


Sat Apr 30, 2011 10:01 am
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
Not to be too out there, but how about 8 to 10 connections (cameras)? I am working on a fulldome rig to capture above 8K circular (stitched), and a control with a multiport configuration would help for ramping.

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Sun May 15, 2011 5:13 pm
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
BerthaDUniverse wrote:
Not to be too out there, but how about 8 to 10 connections (cameras)? I am working on a fulldome rig to capture above 8K circular (stitched), and a control with a multiport configuration would help for ramping.


Only 10? How about 120 cameras ;)

http://www.breezesys.com/MultiCamera/index.htm


Sun May 15, 2011 6:05 pm
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
BerthaDUniverse wrote:
Not to be too out there, but how about 8 to 10 connections (cameras)? I am working on a fulldome rig to capture above 8K circular (stitched), and a control with a multiport configuration would help for ramping.


Stereo Bramper uses two microcontrollers, one for user interface (LCD/keypad) and mathematics etc, and the other strictly for executing exposures. The number of cameras you can control is really limited only by the choice of second microcontroller and the firmware's ability to monitor all cameras in a timely fashion. 10? Not a problem. 120? Might need a redesign. Of course, there are further practical issues regarding multi-camera bramping setups.

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Mon May 16, 2011 6:01 am
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
Jim

I have looked at the Breese Systems site and I really don't want to use a laptop, and I like the compact low voltage requirements (lighter, less batteries, cheaper) of the Little BRamper.

Breese systems did point out this device:
RLY08 - 8 Channel Relay Module

http://www.robot-electronics.co.uk/acat ... dules.html

So I would ask Astronomerroyal if this would work, partially wor, or not at all.

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Sat May 28, 2011 10:55 am
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Post Re: Little Bramper and Two Cameras
astronomerroyal wrote:
BerthaDUniverse wrote:
Not to be too out there, but how about 8 to 10 connections (cameras)? I am working on a fulldome rig to capture above 8K circular (stitched), and a control with a multiport configuration would help for ramping.


Stereo Bramper uses two microcontrollers, one for user interface (LCD/keypad) and mathematics etc, and the other strictly for executing exposures. The number of cameras you can control is really limited only by the choice of second microcontroller and the firmware's ability to monitor all cameras in a timely fashion. 10? Not a problem. 120? Might need a redesign. Of course, there are further practical issues regarding multi-camera bramping setups.



Astronomerroyal, I think the 120 line was a joke, but for all us in the dome community, a real method of doing hirez (8-12K native resolution) capture is currently outside of reality. Simply splitting the triggering signals seems to have its problems (as mentioned here).

I have been working on the mechanics using my manfrotto head, from which I have calculated (for 180x360 degrees) the number for both a full sensor (7) cameras and gor a reduced "C" sensor (9), so to be safe, 10-15 signals would really serve the community and drive a revolution in content production.

Currently I am working a rig with 3 40D's as a test bed for HDR timelapse and wide field (up to 170 degrees) time lapse, I would love to be doing BRamped imagery as well.


Pb.

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Sat May 28, 2011 11:07 am
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