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 Interval ramping / fairing 
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Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 2:42 am
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Post Interval ramping / fairing
Does anyone know of a device or arduino sketch that can do more complex interval ramping such as;
Start interval; 1 frame every 2 mins
End interval; 1 frame every 20 mins
Change interval over next; 6 hours

I am shooting long - form timelapes and really need the ability to fair the intervals up and down while the shot is running much like the old CD100 enables you to do.

Thanks
Rob

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Sat Feb 02, 2013 3:18 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
GBTimelapse will do this if you link the project to the angle of the sun:

http://www.granitebaysoftware.com/Downloads/GBTEOS%20Users%20Guide.pdf

page 62-63


Sun Feb 03, 2013 1:21 am
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
hollyonline wrote:
Does anyone know of a device or arduino sketch that can do more complex interval ramping such as;
Start interval; 1 frame every 2 mins
End interval; 1 frame every 20 mins
Change interval over next; 6 hours

I am shooting long - form timelapes and really need the ability to fair the intervals up and down while the shot is running much like the old CD100 enables you to do.

Thanks
Rob


That's a nice one. I will build it into my exposure ramper. I just need to sort out some other stuff first before I can show it again :-).

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Sun Feb 03, 2013 3:09 am
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
Thanks guys. GB is great but I need a standalone timer. I have 4 cameras running so each needs a dedicated timer. Any ideas when you might have yours built in? Is it an arduino solution?

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Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:56 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
I have interval ramping on the Bulb Ramper Shield I'm working on. As it stands now, the maximum interval is 100 seconds. I suppose a quick code change can bump that up to 20 minutes though. I'll have to give it a try.

Do you need 4 independent controllers? Or would one controller and a 4 way splitter work?

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Tue Feb 05, 2013 6:08 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
Hi John

I was looking at your post on the ramping shield. Great work.

I have a studio with timelapse cameras filming plants so they're often quite long shots, running for 1-2 weeks in total. The motion control system is running in response to an external interval trigger at the moment. I use a MC36 modified to trigger at the moment. I also occasionally use a CD100 which is a stunning controller but sadly not made any longer. Owing to plants changing speed, or the need to match speed, I often need to tweak the interval and it would be good to do this dynamically. Max interval is around 30mins, but mostly it's around 5 mins. Sometime I need an interval of an hour but that's rare.

I'd like to be able to fair the interval up and down to / from two values and over a time ie change from int of 1 min to int of 8 mins over next 8 hours, or next 100 frames. Frames might be better measure than time to ramp over. These values need to be able to be changed live ie while triggering I will need to tweak it in response to the plant.

Interval input to the motion system is via a mini jack I,e, it's an input to arduino, closing the circuit triggers the motion control cycle. All my motion control systems are based on Brian's TB3 which I have modified to run my cameras, 3D system and studio lighting. Brian is awesome and wrote some amazing firmware for me that keeps it all in track.

Finally, each camera needs its own timer so 4 different timers. Each camera is on a different subject.

Thanks!

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Wed Feb 06, 2013 1:42 am
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
I think what you want will work on my Ramper Shield.

You can set the initial interval, say 120 Seconds.
During the timelapse you can adjust the rate of interval ramping in "stops" per 100 pictures. (a stop being double the interval)
Also, while the timelapse is running, you can reset the interval to whatever you want. (if it's at 150 seconds and ramping up, you can set the interval to 200 seconds or 100 seconds or whatever you need and it will continue ramping from there.
There's an output jack to connect to a motion controller.

There isn't an easy way to "start at 2min and ramp to 20 min over 8 hours" unless someone better at calculus than I am can figure out a formula...

I will post the code and schematic when it's done. I will also be building units to sell.

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Wed Feb 06, 2013 5:27 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
John_S wrote:
There isn't an easy way to "start at 2min and ramp to 20 min over 8 hours" unless someone better at calculus than I am can figure out a formula...
.


It depends on what your steps will be in? Do you take a step every say 1 min real time OR every 1min interval time??

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Wed Feb 06, 2013 10:23 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
How complex this gets also depends on the kind of shape you want for the curve of increasing interval. programming an Arduino to do simple linear or logarithmic changes such as INTERVAL = (INTERVAL + INCREMENT) or INTERVAL = (INTERVAL X INCREMENT) is easy, but a more smooth-in, smooth-out curve isn't quite so simple. You need to get the attention of JohnB and get him to program some Raspberry Pi boards for you.

My own project Pipsqueak control on Arduino can implement the simple options described above but nothing more fancy.
All I do is make the time taken to complete one "loop" equal to the required interval. This is done by making a variable 'StartTime" equal the current time at the start of the loop and then wait at the end until the current time equals StartTime + Interval. Interval can then be incremented as above.

Depending on how cool you want it all to look, you could build a graphic interface on a PC to talk serial to the Arduino and let it calculate the increments for you, use Excel to do the calculations and edit the Arduino Sketch each time or leave out Excel and test your own maths ability with the aid of a calculator!

Good luck

Kit


Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:13 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
Another thought which might fit your needs. It would be quite easy to make the arduino let you control rate of change of interval with a simple knob and get feedback of rate of change and current interval via serial. Transfer this data to an Excel spreadsheet and you can graph out past and predicted behaviour limited only by your ability with Excel.

Kit


Thu Feb 07, 2013 7:27 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
Wow. Those are all great ideas. I don't think it needs to be very complex, and I can see doing it over hours is a maths problem. Basing the interval on frames would be easier?

The motion system runs on frames ie it knows the shot will be 1200 frames long and it knows what to do with each motor for every frame. It then waits for an interval signal from an external source.

So, if the interval ramping was done on frames it could presumably calculate quite easily? Ramp from 120sec to 600sec in 250 frames would be adding 1.92 sec to each interval for then next 250 frames. Linear would be fine I think.

Would that be the easiest way?

Only complication being I might need to edit those numbers on the fly.

Rob

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Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:32 am
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
hollyonline wrote:
Wow. Those are all great ideas. I don't think it needs to be very complex, and I can see doing it over hours is a maths problem. Basing the interval on frames would be easier?

The motion system runs on frames ie it knows the shot will be 1200 frames long and it knows what to do with each motor for every frame. It then waits for an interval signal from an external source.

So, if the interval ramping was done on frames it could presumably calculate quite easily? Ramp from 120sec to 600sec in 250 frames would be adding 1.92 sec to each interval for then next 250 frames. Linear would be fine I think.

Would that be the easiest way?

Only complication being I might need to edit those numbers on the fly.

Rob


I don't see why this is so hard to do. You should be able to modify any setting while a controller is running. That is just a matter of how you program the software. I really like this idea and will give it a go in my controller.

Don't we need some sort of ramping curve? Linear seems ok, but I would like it to go as smooth as possible at the end of the ramp. I would vote for some sort of S-curve.

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Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:15 am
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
Curves are great. I was just trying to keep it simple.

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Sat Feb 09, 2013 4:55 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
I'd love to do curves as well. Any volunteers to write the quick and dirty guide on how to get started?

Kit


Sat Feb 09, 2013 5:44 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
Does anyone know if the CD100 uses curves or is linear for its ramping?

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Sun Feb 10, 2013 2:32 am
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
Kitwn wrote:
I'd love to do curves as well. Any volunteers to write the quick and dirty guide on how to get started?

Kit


Google is your friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmoid_function

Multiply that function with the max interval time and you are done......

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Sun Feb 10, 2013 5:12 am
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
hollyonline wrote:
Does anyone know if the CD100 uses curves or is linear for its ramping?


Just read post(s) ..... interesting .... The problem with this site is that it gets your mind working ...... it's addictive .....

I think its linear. I had to take a look at the manual :)

The fairing option is based on start frame/end frame and start interval/end interval.

Link to manual >>http://www.tshed.co.uk/1/e107_files/public/cd100v4manual.pdf

Re such start/end ramping I have used the sine function in the past and embedded within a while loop to get smooth transitions. I will try to dig out the code.

Not sure you can do this on an Arduino though. Not enough punch for the maths. May be wrong though ...... I am not Arduino literate.

From what I have read about the CD100 you can do the same thing and more on the RPi. The RPI needs modding to handle input/output but that is all. It's then just a bit of programming to get the feel right ......... Question: Is there a lot of call for this sort of functionality?

Off topic ... and just to throw it in .... one thing I want to try re interval manipulation is getting the sky to oscillate i.e. to sine wave back and forth or progressively ripple forward in a sine wave.... sort of time manipulation not just shifting.

Anyway, I will try to dig out some code and sanitise to show how I used sine.

Hope this helps fuel the discussion. The interaction and ideas that flow around on this site is what makes it unique :D

John

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Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:26 am
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
cronix wrote:
Kitwn wrote:
I'd love to do curves as well. Any volunteers to write the quick and dirty guide on how to get started?

Kit


Google is your friend: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmoid_function

Multiply that function with the max interval time and you are done......


Hi Cronix, I had not tried this one and it looks pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing. As mentioned in previous post I cut part of a sine function but it does not give quite the same profile. I will try this one.

I also read your post re bulb ramping progress re Nikon. Hope the development is going well. Don't know about you though but getting the RPI settled take quite a bit of work. I seem to go two steps forward and one step back all the time ... still you get there in the end. All the best

John

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Sun Feb 10, 2013 11:33 am
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
Hi John

Great sleuthing on the cd100. There probably isn't massive call for it but it would be very useful and given the cd100 not being made any more there would be some use albeit small. It maybe doesn't need to be hugely complex or maths heavy, maybe would be good to work out what the arduino can cope with and fit within those limits? Good to know what other people think. I can't offer any programming skills I'm afraid.

I agree about this site. Very addictive and some very talented people on it.

Rob

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Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:19 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
JohnB wrote:

Hi Cronix, I had not tried this one and it looks pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing. As mentioned in previous post I cut part of a sine function but it does not give quite the same profile. I will try this one.

I also read your post re bulb ramping progress re Nikon. Hope the development is going well. Don't know about you though but getting the RPI settled take quite a bit of work. I seem to go two steps forward and one step back all the time ... still you get there in the end. All the best

John


I have been working 7 days per week on this thing. My first prototype has a lot of issues (especially with Nikon camera's). That is why I haven't posted any real progress lately. But these issues are now under control and I hope to order new PCB's at the end of this month.

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Sun Feb 10, 2013 12:25 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
hollyonline wrote:
Hi John

Great sleuthing on the cd100. There probably isn't massive call for it but it would be very useful and given the cd100 not being made any more there would be some use albeit small. It maybe doesn't need to be hugely complex or maths heavy, maybe would be good to work out what the arduino can cope with and fit within those limits? Good to know what other people think. I can't offer any programming skills I'm afraid.

I agree about this site. Very addictive and some very talented people on it.

Rob


Hi Rob,
I might have a go at programming this to see what is possible. I am just interested to see how easy it is. The unit I am working on has the functionality control trigger and multi axis MoCo but it is easy just to reprogramme just to control interval and trigger. It is not much code. I wil post again once I have tried.

John

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Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:33 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
cronix wrote:
JohnB wrote:

Hi Cronix, I had not tried this one and it looks pretty interesting. Thanks for sharing. As mentioned in previous post I cut part of a sine function but it does not give quite the same profile. I will try this one.

I also read your post re bulb ramping progress re Nikon. Hope the development is going well. Don't know about you though but getting the RPI settled take quite a bit of work. I seem to go two steps forward and one step back all the time ... still you get there in the end. All the best

John


I have been working 7 days per week on this thing. My first prototype has a lot of issues (especially with Nikon camera's). That is why I haven't posted any real progress lately. But these issues are now under control and I hope to order new PCB's at the end of this month.


Hi Cronix, pleased to hear the end is in sight. Likewise I have been through a few "refinements" and re-thinks. Getting there though. I have found the programming OK but the interfaces have caused a few problems. Getting close to putting it in a box now. Still on a hard wired board though. John

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Sun Feb 10, 2013 3:42 pm
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Post Re: Interval ramping / fairing
John,

I recognise the 2 steps forward, 1 step back. I seem to have been taking more steps back lately. Loads of time spent writing code for the Arduino and in VB 2010 and not quite getting them talking to each other. Learned loads though and am hopeful that I'm now on the right track.

Once I have the jumbo PC interface completed I will be able to fully test the combination of machanical and control elements and actualy make some movies!!!!

Love reading this forum. Makes facebook look like a load of childish drivel. Hang on a minute..... ;)


Kit


Mon Feb 11, 2013 3:31 am
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