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 EDELKRONE (or cinevate DUZI or IFOOTAGE SHARK) + EMOTIMO 
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:01 pm
Posts: 2
Post EDELKRONE (or cinevate DUZI or IFOOTAGE SHARK) + EMOTIMO
Hi all,

Thanks for all your posts. They helped me a bunch.

After lots of research I am down to a few system for time-lapse work and a bit of video.
Decision is based on weight (to some extend) and (mainly) size/portability - travel friendly.

I am thinking about purchasing the Emotimo +
- Edelkrone plus v2 (eventually the new Pro version if it is better - not a lot of info on it yet)
- Cinevate Duzi
- IFootage Shark S1

From what I understand the new version of the Emotimo (TB3) adds a 3rd axis movement option with the addition of a motor to move the Emotimo + camera horizontally along the slider. But this means that the slider must have a belt drive of some sort, RIGHT?
This would mean the Duzi is out of the question.

Questions:
1. Can someone confirm that a belt drive of some sort is needed to use the 3rd axis option of the Emotimo.
2. Has anyone used one, if not both, slider(s), i.e. Edelkrone (v2 or Pro) and IFootage Shark s1.

I saw that Emotimo now partners with Rhino gear with a 4ft slider. Seems great but it is too long for me to stick it in my luggage when travelling.

Any other insight much appreciated.
Thanks.
O.


Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:27 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:21 pm
Posts: 340
Post Re: EDELKRONE (or cinevate DUZI or IFOOTAGE SHARK) + EMOTIMO
Dynamic Perception has the Stage One which is a break down system made for travel and adventure. It's fully compatible with the Emotimo.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 6:48 am
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Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:45 am
Posts: 1685
Location: Merritt Island, Florida, Estates Unitas
Post Re: EDELKRONE (or cinevate DUZI or IFOOTAGE SHARK) + EMOTIMO
I've been researching a project that involves dolly pan/tilt plus more. My imagined use involves a lot of travelling, so the four foot sticks on the Rino dolly were a deal breaker. You can use eMotimo with dollies that do not use a belt. Many people have used it with Chronos dollies. The Chronos dollies have a stepper motor at the end of the track which moves the trolley with a leadscrew. Very precise, repeatable, no backlash. Chronos2 controllers can make it all battery operated and portable.

The Dynamic perception stage one dolly would be my first choice because it breaks down into small sections for transport. I'm looking at one with several of the 20 inch sections. Belt drive makes it possible to have any length of track, and have the track a different length for the next job.

I liked the way the Edelkrone moves twice its length. Its a brilliant design. I kind of like dolly-zoom shots, and the way the track moves out of your way as you dolly back, helps a lot with those shots. For me, the ability to join three or four stage one sections into an even longer dolly was the deciding factor.

I had also looked at the ifootage shark. I like the breakdown track and the price is half that of the stage one. Very nice machining on their trolley and end parts. The quick release for separating trolley from track is real nice if it works the way it looks. I didn't see a way to add more track sections than the two. There seemed to be no support part for supporting the middle if you wanted to add more sections. One of the reasons I have hesitated is because of the big jump in price going to the stage one.

There have been lots of discussions about whether or not you need a long slider. I got one of the original stage zero dollies and made a 12 foot and a 20 foot track for it. I find I use the longer tracks a lot. The times I use the original (only six feet) track is when I'm lazy and don't feel like lugging out the big, heavy one. Lots of people have said they are perfectly happy with a one meter dolly. So what do i know?

For me, the questions are "do I need a longer track?" and "is it worth spending twice as much for it?" Otherwise, whats wrong with the Edelkrone?


Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:12 am
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Joined: Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:01 pm
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Post Re: EDELKRONE (or cinevate DUZI or IFOOTAGE SHARK) + EMOTIMO
Thanks for your prompt and detailed response Sciencelookers.

I had considered Stage One. But their price is insane: 1250$ for 2 tubes of metal, a plastic belt and a simple motor. BTW, do you like the quality of the system? Not fragile, I mean the trolley with rolls?
Right now I don't think I will need long tracks, but I am most likely wrong and I am sure the desire to have larger camera movement will come soon. Though maybe not a 20ft track ;)

Chronos is not really an option as the slider is too long and the system seems still in Beta state. But thanks for sharing the idea because I had not come across them yet. Their leadscrew system is well thought.

Ifootage Shark is still an option. But again, I am such a noob, I don't get what to add for the system to work with the 3rd axis control of Emotimo (or any other motor/control device). What I was trying to say previously is that a mechanical system has to be there to move the trolley along the slider via a motor. In the case of Stage one and IFootage Shark, it is a plastic belt. In the case of Chronos, it is a leadscrew. In the case of Stage one and Chronos the motor is there. For the IFootage, I understand one can buy a motor, but the motor has to be connected to a piece that will make the belt turn, right?
Why no one has come out with a book "Time-lapse equipment for Dummies" yet?

Funny ... Edelkrone just came out today with a time-lapse control system. The Craft Module. The concept is based on "simplicity". You enter the length of the movement desired. How much time you will record. How long the movie will be with the combined shots. And the system determines the other parameters on its own (number of shots, distance between each shot, time between each shot). Here is my concern and I hope someone on the forum can address it:
I thought one of the most important factor of time-lapse is determining how many seconds are needed between each shot. I.e. a daytime time-lapse with fast moving clouds will require a short period between shots. Inversely, shooting the stars at night will require a long period between shots. The distance the camera should go along the slider is not a determining factor, neither is the length of the movie made out all combined shots. Isn't the Craft Module of Edelkrone flawed in this sense?
https://www.edelkrone.com/us/p/309/craft-module
By the way, their Target Module looks awesome.

Thanks to anybody responding (or even reading) to this.


Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:42 pm
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Joined: Wed Nov 11, 2009 10:45 am
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Location: Merritt Island, Florida, Estates Unitas
Post Re: EDELKRONE (or cinevate DUZI or IFOOTAGE SHARK) + EMOTIMO
Nothing flawed with that controller. Just because the user interface is not the typical one doesn't mean its not brilliant and just better. Setting up a timelapse shot, especially with motion can be complicated. There is math involved and everything. You start by deciding the critical parameters. For a static tripod mounted shot, you decide how much time you want to pass during the recording of the images, then you decide how long you want the movie to play on screen. From these parameters (the creative decisions), you then go on to do the maths, how many shots? what is the interframe interval? If you are adding motion from a dolly, you divide up the distance you want it to travel by the number of shots to get the distance you want it to go between each pair of shots, then you calculate how many revolutions of the motor that is, then how many steps. Different controllers simplify some of it. For example, Dynamic Perception MX-2 lets you specify how many inches to move each time. Thing is, the controller has a computer in it. Why do you have to do all the math yourself? Thats what these guys have automated. I have long wondered why nobody did it this way, and someone finally did. They are letting you make the creative decisions and getting the computer to do the math for you. Awesome! You need to make sure your exposures are shorter than the interframe interval the controller is forced to set based on the parameters you gave it, but I think it displays the number it has chosen for the delay between shots (interframe interval).

As far as adapting a video slider to be a timelapse dolly goes, yes, you need to do some DIY work to attach a motor and some way for it to move the trolley. This motor is a good general purpose dolly motor for controllers like eMotimo that run stepper motors.

http://www.phidgets.com/products.php?ca ... _id=3327_0

If you have an idea how you'd want to do it, and the tools, go for it. Otherwise, you now understand why Dynamic can charge twice as much for their timelapse dolly as the other guys get for their video sliders.

If the DP dolly is too expensive, have you considered one of the slidetracked dolly models? The company is run by a Timescapes member who designed all the stuff and makes it. Nobody puts more value into a dolly and asks less money for it than Derek. I don't know how he does it, but he makes a very nice timelapse dolly and sells it for less than the video sliders you are looking to convert. I think his dolly and controller are for DC motors, but I think eMotimo can synch with it. This would leave your eMotimo aux motor port available if you want to add a focus or zoom motor. Ask Brian at eMotimo if it will synch before you buy. Check out Derek's website at;

http://www.slidetracked.com/


Thu Mar 27, 2014 11:22 am
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Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2011 1:56 am
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Location: Sydney - Australia
Post Re: EDELKRONE (or cinevate DUZI or IFOOTAGE SHARK) + EMOTIMO
I have an Emotimo TB3 with a DP stage zero slider. I use the DP quick change motor mount to attach the stepper motors that Emotimo sell. It's not especially portable but it's very tough and more importantly, stable. You don't want to end up with ruined shots because your slider twists or bows during a shot. The Emotimo is light for what it does but once you have a DSLR on there too the combined weight is significant.

If you're like me and don't want to be building and modifying things I'd suggest getting a slider that Emotimo support. Brian is very helpful and he'll get you up and running if you are using a set up that they know. BTW I notice that Rhino do a 2ft slider so why not see if you can order that with an Emotimo bundle? Personally my next slider will be a DP Stage 1. The quality and thought that goes into their products is excellent and IMHO well worth the money.


Sun Mar 30, 2014 12:21 am
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