It is currently Sat Jan 16, 2021 4:47 am




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 
 Work for hire 
Author Message
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:33 am
Posts: 37
Location: Austin, TX / Nashville, TN
Post Work for hire
Hey guys,
I just recently did a work for hire job for Fossil watches. My question is in regards to rights and usage. Essentially they hired me and my partner to show the production of some posters that they were having made for a new campaign they are starting. We got an $1,100 bid approved but it was for two days of work. We did not shoot exclusively time lapse either, we picked up some video with interviews and b roll. We had $400 in rentals and $50 in expenses. If you divide the remaining budget amongst the two of us, we end up making $175 a day for the two days. Netting about $350 each.
Definitely not what I would hope to make from a client as big as Fossil but times are tight and needed the money. Anyway I guess what I'm getting at is since they hired my partner and I to shoot the job, does that give them unlimited rights to the material, or should they get the limited rights and do a "buyout" if they would like to retain unlimited rights? We have yet to receive their legal contract for review but would like to have a good idea of what approach to take when we do! Any info on this matter is greatly appreciated. Just don't want to get screwed out of some much needed money!

Jesse Parker

Parker/Rozario Productions

_________________
Canon 5DMKII, Orion Teletrack, Dynamic Perception w/MX2, Lightroom 3, FCP 7

http://www.parkerrozario.com, http://vimeo.com/parkerrozario, http://www.youtube.com/user/Parkerrozario?feature=mhum


Mon Mar 08, 2010 8:41 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Nov 20, 2008 9:00 am
Posts: 242
Post Re: Work for hire
in all my experiences, if they hired me, it's all theirs. Not that you couldn't haggle, but that should have been done BEFORE the shoot. Sounds like you should have bid more like $1600. Me, I would have rounded up to $2K.

_________________
Steven M. Bumgardner
Film Video Photography
www.yosemitesteve.com
@YosemiteSteve

Canon 5D Mark II, 24mm f1.4, 16-35mm f2.8, 24-105mm f4, Sony EX1R, CamBLOCK Motion Control, KesslerCrane, CineSlider and some cold beer.


Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:13 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:33 am
Posts: 37
Location: Austin, TX / Nashville, TN
Post Re: Work for hire
Thanks for the input. That's what I was afraid of! This was my first corporate gig. So I'll consider this a lesson learned. They were trying to get us to do the job for $500 total for both days....how insulting. If I didn't need the money so bad I would have taken a greater risk and bid around $1500 or more. Which is what it was actually worth after all the work we ended up putting into it. They also called us 5 hrs. before they wanted us to start shooting. Talk about rush job. We only had an hr. or two to wrangle the gear. This was a referl from a "friend" so we gave him the "friend" price. If they like our work and want to use us again the price will definitely double. Thanks again for the advice.

Jesse

_________________
Canon 5DMKII, Orion Teletrack, Dynamic Perception w/MX2, Lightroom 3, FCP 7

http://www.parkerrozario.com, http://vimeo.com/parkerrozario, http://www.youtube.com/user/Parkerrozario?feature=mhum


Mon Mar 08, 2010 9:34 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:36 pm
Posts: 1787
Location: Antarctica/California/New Zealand
Post Re: Work for hire
Unless it is footage I know I will have no use for, generally I will shoot things on a basis of I own the copyright, but will grant them an unlimited use license.
If they want to own all rights, the price will go up significantly, as there is no possibility of further income off the footage down the road.

_________________
Anthony Powell
"Antarctica: A Year On Ice" Feature Film
Vimeo Youtube Photos
Twitter Instagram Google+
Facebook Facebook Movie Page


Mon Mar 08, 2010 12:33 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Nov 13, 2009 10:33 am
Posts: 37
Location: Austin, TX / Nashville, TN
Post Re: Work for hire
Thanks Antz for your perspective on this. I will have to wait and see what their legal team sends us. But I would definitely like to retain the copyright on this stuff because there is potential to make some money on the footage down the road. Or just get paid what it's actually worth considering the amount of effort we have put into it. Fossil really put us in a pickle because they gave us 5 hrs. of notice about the shoot, so we really didn't have a chance to get the legal stuff straightened out, which I have a feeling may work to our disadvantage. Especially since we have a few hundred in rentals out of our own pocket, invested. I'll let you guys know how it works out in the end. Thanks again.

Jesse

_________________
Canon 5DMKII, Orion Teletrack, Dynamic Perception w/MX2, Lightroom 3, FCP 7

http://www.parkerrozario.com, http://vimeo.com/parkerrozario, http://www.youtube.com/user/Parkerrozario?feature=mhum


Tue Mar 09, 2010 11:52 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:30 am
Posts: 824
Location: Sydney, Australia
Post Re: Work for hire
With some of my clients I offer a "custom stock" deal.

This usually means I supply or shoot a specific sequence for them but license it for a limited period and usage. (eg. perhaps in a tvc that may be on air for only a year)
The client has 'exclusive' rights for the material in that situation, but at the end of the period agreed the rights revert back to me.

The client gets a good price and I can re-use the material.


Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:27 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jul 08, 2008 12:36 pm
Posts: 1787
Location: Antarctica/California/New Zealand
Post Re: Work for hire
Yes indeed Matt, that is also a really good option, give them exclusive rights for a specific period, but retain the copyright.
That way you can make sure they are happy that their film / ad campaign / whatever will not be compromised during their prime screening window.

_________________
Anthony Powell
"Antarctica: A Year On Ice" Feature Film
Vimeo Youtube Photos
Twitter Instagram Google+
Facebook Facebook Movie Page


Tue Mar 09, 2010 7:34 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jul 04, 2008 12:48 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Miles City, Montana
Post Re: Work for hire
Okay, I'm a newbie to contracts as you can see from other posts in the Business section. So my opinion shouldn't carry the wgt of the pros on the site.

My impression is that they have you over a barrel since you really shouldn't have broken ground (started anything) without having an agreed upon contract stating what they'll get, what their rights are, and cost. You can certainly attempt to edit whatever contract they send you and try to add something like Matt proposed. Would it be reasonable to head them off with your own contract? If nothing else you really need to work on a draft contract so you'll be prepared for the next gig. There are good contract examples in the other threads. I would think the worst that will happen is they'll reject it and you'll be back to giving them everything and get paid the agreed upon amount.

Lesson learned. I've recently gone through something like that myself and made a few different draft contracts.

_________________
http://vimeo.com/user1477834/videos
Canon, Arduino, AE, etc.


Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:06 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Tue Aug 26, 2008 3:30 am
Posts: 824
Location: Sydney, Australia
Post Re: Work for hire
When negotiating $ with clients it's a good strategy to have set yourself a minimum price for your own 'staff-time' (ie., yourself/ and crew) that you are happy with and don't go below it before agreeing on a final budget.

On top of that figure you add rentals, stock, post etc. usually with some sort of mark up figure.
The mark up gives you a bit of room to finesse the final cost in the plus or minus direction, depending on how you 'read' the situation.

Get the client to issue a purchase order with the agreed figure.

.... Then everybody should be happy! :D


Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:45 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:33 pm
Posts: 281
Location: Victoria, Canada
Post Re: Work for hire
If you want the nasty answer, you lost money. Considering the amount of equipment you had to haul on site that you already own, plus all of the legitimate business overhead costs you would have to have (taxes, insurance, phone, etc.), you did not cover your costs.
When I go out to shoot for myself, the camera bag is worth at least 10K. When I shoot the odd freelance stuff its $600 a day, and that is a give away price to the client. The same price I started with in 1988 for the same client. Plus expenses.
But, hopefully you will have a nice portfolio piece, some beer money and a future long term client who will shower you with all sorts of great work.


Thu Mar 11, 2010 3:00 pm
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 10 posts ] 


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB © phpBB Group.
Designed by Vjacheslav Trushkin for Free Forums/DivisionCore. pozycjonowanie