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 Length of dolly, fps and the internet 
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:47 am
Posts: 388
Location: St Gallen, Switzerland
Post Length of dolly, fps and the internet
My DP dolly set-up now extends to 12 feet of rail (3 x 4 foot sections) but there is one major limitation on its usefulness (the full 12 feet I mean). One shot per tooth gives me nearly 700 shots. At 30 fps this is a 22 second clip - way too long in most cases, unless you`ve captured Rainbow over the Potala Palace or similar.
One way around this is to do 2 teeth per shot, then you have an 11 second clip which has a better chance of holding some people`s attention if it`s good enough. But then you have to put quite some distance between the dolly and the foreground object, otherwise the foreground comes out choppy.
I would rather have 60 fps at 720 than 30 fps at 1080 for web purposes. Is there a video site that allows uploads of 60 fps (ie that doesn`t scale the fps down)?


Wed Jun 06, 2012 12:14 pm
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:37 pm
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Location: Córdoba, Argentina
Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
You could try with time remapping or time-stretching if you use AE: http://help.adobe.com/en_US/aftereffect ... 7d58a.html / https://vimeo.com/35533331

I think it's the second one that let you double the speed, so if you import a 22s clip, you can reduce the length to 11s or whatever you want and everything will go faster.

I know there's a similar tool inside Premiere Pro too.

Always use frame blending if you use this tool.

Import with your desired fps (let's say 25), then you just export using the same frame rate.

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Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:03 pm
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:21 pm
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Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
Personally, with the longer length of rail I'd stick to a tooth per shot and time remap in post. What you can do is first introduce some motion blur with all those extra frames and then speed it up to keep the resulting speed looking smooth. It'll take a little trial and error in the post production side but it will make that long run over a 10 second shot looking smooth. ;)

So here's what I'd do for example (in AE):
- First create 'comp1' @ 24p and import all 700 frames. (it'll end up being like 24 seconds total)
- Add a CC Time Blend or Force Shutter Blur filter to 'comp1'
- Now create 'comp2' and import 'comp1' into it..
- Time remap comp2 and cut the clip time in half.
- Then go back to comp1 and play with the blend or blur until comp2 starts to look good


Wed Jun 06, 2012 1:23 pm
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:47 am
Posts: 388
Location: St Gallen, Switzerland
Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
Thanks for the input. I`m going to have to buy After Effects. I`ve put it off too long.
Will CS5.5 manage the above proceedure or must I buy CS6?


Thu Jun 07, 2012 12:49 am
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:28 am
Posts: 25
Location: Rotterdam Area, The Netherlands
Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
Another solution is editing the shot.
Kill your darlings and dare to shorten it.
(Your track seems to be too long ;) )

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Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:42 am
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Joined: Tue Jan 31, 2012 8:09 am
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Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
Ian wrote:
Thanks for the input. I`m going to have to buy After Effects. I`ve put it off too long.
Will CS5.5 manage the above proceedure or must I buy CS6?


CS5.5 will do pretty much anything you can imagine. CS6 is definitely an upgrade, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater here...If you don't know you need CS6, then you don't need it :)


Sun Jul 01, 2012 9:06 pm
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:47 am
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Location: St Gallen, Switzerland
Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
Quote:
Kill your darlings and dare to shorten it.


A 12-foot dolly is a hop, skip and a jump compared to some of the amazing hyperlapse moves I`ve seen. So thumbs down for your comment.


Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:12 am
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:28 am
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Location: Rotterdam Area, The Netherlands
Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
I was just suggesting a different approach. 'Kill your darlings' is very common when it comes to any creative process.
With over 10 years of experience as editor I killed quite some darlings. (Most were my own :( )
It's hard, harsh and brutal to do so, but in the end it's about the total endresult.

For your original question there are 3 solutions:
- speed things up using AE, finetuning the motion blur (especially on the foreground).
- select the piece that is interesting enough to keep people watching.
- shoot that Rainbow over the Potala Palace, so 22 seconds isn't too long.

If the length of your dolly is very important to you, you have 2 options left.
That's fine with me :)
I never meant to insult you or your dolly ;)

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Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:49 am
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:47 am
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Location: St Gallen, Switzerland
Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
Hello Walter,
Thank you for elucidating. I had not heard the expression "kill your darlings". Sometimes you Dutch know more english than we Brits! But it is rather a loaded phrase. I haven`t the slightest interest in being seen to own a 12-foot dolly rather than a 3-foot one. It is indeed about the end result.


Mon Jul 02, 2012 3:05 am
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:28 am
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Location: Rotterdam Area, The Netherlands
Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
@Ian:

I didn't realise that 'kill your darlings' isn't a phrase as common as I thought.

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Thu Jul 05, 2012 1:58 pm
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:14 am
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Location: Dublin Ireland
Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
Haha I never heard it either. Now I dont normally trust Wiki but
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kill_Your_ ... (2006_film)

So I think "kill your darlings" is a play on the phrase "murder your darlings"
http://www.easywaytowrite.com/ArtMurder.html

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Fri Jul 06, 2012 3:23 am
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:47 am
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Location: St Gallen, Switzerland
Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
Interesting. I`d understood it to mean, edit your work down as much as possible. And then some more. Keep it as punchy and as succinct as possible.
But the definitions in the links are different and to me counter-intuitive. Interpolated: if you`re proud of your time lapses trash them. If you`re not happy with them, publish them! Oh come on!


Fri Jul 06, 2012 4:32 am
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Joined: Tue Oct 04, 2011 7:14 am
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Location: Dublin Ireland
Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
No i think the way you interpreted it is how it was intended in this context( i also think it was a throw away comment). The context from the link I just pasted is for writing

"The theory is that writing you’re particularly proud of is probably self-indulgent and will stand out."

If you are reading a book and something "stands out" then you will loose your flow of reading and fall out of the flow of the book. Taking the best out the best of your timelapes is silly. Being very critical of your work and not leaving in a shot that was very hard to get but doesn't quite fit with the sequence or "stands out" it will take from the rest of it.

I just sent the links because I found the saying interesting and never heard it before.

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Fri Jul 06, 2012 5:35 am
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Joined: Sun Jul 01, 2012 6:28 am
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Location: Rotterdam Area, The Netherlands
Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
Trashing the good stuff is silly offcourse.
What I meant is that the endresult is more important than keeping something you are fond of, or something that you did a lot of effort for, but doesn't 'work' in the endresult.
In the linked page the 'editing something out because it's irrelevant' is the way I see it.
And that is always difficult.

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Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:38 am
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Joined: Fri Dec 04, 2009 3:31 pm
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Post Re: Length of dolly, fps and the internet
I've always heard it as "killing your babies" and it's good advice. I think it was Danny Boyle who said the first thing he does in the editing bay is find his very favorite scene from the movie and toss it, just to get it out of the way (perhaps somewhat tongue in cheek).


Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:47 am
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