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 BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP! 
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:32 pm
Posts: 4
Post BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
Please indulge my " Set it and Forget it " rant --but I'm just confused... read below and help me to understand :(

I have yet to try Bulb Ramping because the concept seems off to me?

It seems to me the most accurate / best way to achieve a perfect smooth exposure over a sunset to night or night into day ( holly grail stuff ) would be with a device that measures the light, but does not create flicker like AV or TV/ or Auto on a DSLR will.

So I guess my question is -- Is Bulb Ramping when you set certain parameters and then a intervalometer increases/ decreases the pre-determind exposures-- right? I do not under stand how that works either--exposure wise--I mean if your unit does not read the light how then does it know how much of an exposure increase or decrease to compensate for? Seems to me you may still have to makes slight exposure adjustments in every frame?

What happens if the light we are looking at changes in a way that we were not expecting ( say like a cloud rolled by ) -- the intervalometer does not know that a cloud just rolled by? I just do not understand how this even works in a practical sense? I guess some people would just adjust on the fly, but that is crazy--right?

I was thinking about buying the Promote Control, but it's $300 and they tell you to go to the location of the shoot the day before to read the light and make your setting for the shot 24 hours into the future---THAT MAKES NO PRACTICAL SENSE !!

I'm looking at the JSR--that seems better, I feel it to you have to do a bunch of crap on the fly--- " I WANT TO SET IT AND FORGET IT !! I want a system that readys the light---is not possible ??? Anyone...anyone ? It must be doable? Seems like the Timelapse Plus are tring, but not there yet--why not already !!

If I have to go into every exposure and make adjustments then it just does not seem worth it? It will not be accurate---I currently use LR Timelapse for post and even that is not perfect and has issues--but it gets you close.

Oh yea I also use the MX2 and I have a Emotimo , so it does not seem practical to have to make any adjustments while the camera is in motion? I do not want or like it EVER if I need to touch my camera after a time-lapse has started---am I wrong on that or just too worried?

Am I crazy?

Sorry,

Thanks for reading.

Please help me in my confusion--am crazy?


Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:23 am
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Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 5:21 pm
Posts: 340
Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
The irony is your camera has probably the most sophisticated light sensor in the world, but because everything Canon, Nikon, Sony & Panasonic is proprietary getting that information into a secondary device is a PITA.

Now let's talk external sensors. Their expensive and you need quite a bit of logic built into the device to make sure it doesn't overreact to the original problem at hand.. changing lighting situations. Don't underestimate the development time and cost to integrate a light sensor into device logic. Would you for example pay $1000 for a dedicated bulb-ramper? Probably not.. And why would you when GB-timelapse running on a netbook is far less. Speaking of which have you considered that solution? =)

Check out 'gbtimelapse auto-ramp'


Thu Feb 28, 2013 1:27 pm
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Joined: Tue Jan 11, 2011 8:12 pm
Posts: 121
Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
Sunshine to candlelight has a 100,000:1 variation in light intensity.

Phototransistors and photodiodes are limited to candlelight and brighter, but are cheap. A logarithmic amplified photodiode with integrated visible light filtering would seem to be the best and most practical solution (and available), but again, it's only going to work well into early twilight.

Avalanche photodiodes can get down to moonlight, but are way more expensive.
Photomultipliers and other exotics can get down to starlight, but forget it.

IMHO, using a CCD or CMOS accumulating sensor is the way to go, fundamentally low cost, allowing integration of light over time, allowing for better sensitivity. However, I haven't yet seen an accumulating ambient light sensor on the market.


Thu Feb 28, 2013 3:26 pm
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Joined: Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:32 pm
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Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
Jay,

How the heck are you !.

DP, you, and all the boys rock and you all have TOP NOTCH service and support, so thank you :)

The answer to your question--YES I would pay $1K for a "magic box" all in one set it and forget it intervalometer ( why you all making one ! )

I have read a little on the GB, but its all windows? what the frick? I am and forever shall be a Mac Man --I cant understand why they don't support both? Talk to them Jay--for me ;)

Also--not really wanting to lug around a laptop and have that all tethered into my DP ? Emotimo slider---just way to much.. I would gladly pay top dollar for a magic box that could power and slave my entire rig and give me proper exposures for any lighting conditions.

Note :
Has anyone here ever used a Sony EX1 or EX 3 --- that line of cameras have a built in intervalometer that when you set the camera to FULL AUTO ---yields AMAZING smooth transitions. It does what I want from DSLR technology. I got hooked on time-lapse with those two cameras ( we used to rent them out) and it was great. It took me 30 sec to set the parameters in the menu and then I had nothing else to worry "think" about except the composition. It freed me to just think about the shot and not all the math. That being said. I do like to think and learn as I have been doing, but sometimes I just want to grab the camera and get the shot and not think too much.

Anyway the point is-- you should find out what Sony is doing inside those cameras and see if there is a way to incorporate that into the DSLR world---some how what Sony is doing has to be able to be implemented into a DSLR?


Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:32 pm
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Joined: Thu Feb 18, 2010 4:47 am
Posts: 388
Location: St Gallen, Switzerland
Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
bbkupko, I share your frustration about this endeavour generally. It seems every time I go out with an ambitious idea in my mind, I either make one stupid but fatal error or some piece of gear lets me down, usually some cable, not to mention the unrepeatibility of moves you`d thought you`d mastered at home (thanks to dc motors).
But for goodness sake, drop your Mac stubborness and go out and get a small, portable laptop and hook GBTimelapse up to your mx2, emotimo etc.


Fri Mar 01, 2013 1:12 am
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Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2011 11:38 pm
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Location: Exmouth, Western Australia
Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
We don't want this stuff to be too easy, then everyone would be doing it. There have to some be places left where knowledge, experience, perseverence, ingenuity and some real effort can produce results that are just not achievable by simply buying another app for your phone.

Kit


Sun Mar 03, 2013 9:45 pm
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Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 1:18 pm
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Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
Kitwn wrote:
We don't want this stuff to be too easy, then everyone would be doing it. There have to some be places left where knowledge, experience, perseverence, ingenuity and some real effort can produce results that are just not achievable by simply buying another app for your phone.

Kit

Wise words .If you lose the magic and the art you lose my interest . Look at hyperlapse/hand held . All a bit boring now . :(


Mon Mar 04, 2013 1:24 am
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 10:24 am
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Location: Netherlands
Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
bbkupko wrote:

The answer to your question--YES I would pay $1K for a "magic box" all in one set it and forget it intervalometer ( why you all making one ! )


I am happy to hear that :-). Although 1K is a bit high.

I understand the issue. I make many sun set sequences as part of the testing effort for my exposure ramper. Getting the right set of parameters can be difficult. Keeping the number of parameters to a minimum is also not easy. I hope to solve part of this by providing a very easy to use interface. A simulation mode that provides graphical feedback about the timelapse sequence (including number of ramped stops, runtime etc) can help you out in most situations.

But an automatic solution will give you average results just like the automatic settings of your camera. It's just that the controlled needs to support you a much, and easy, as possible.

_________________
eMotion Control Store - http://www.elysiavisuals.com
Exposure ramping with Nikon and Canon - http://www.elysiavisuals.com/catalog


Mon Mar 04, 2013 5:12 am
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Joined: Tue Apr 28, 2009 7:48 pm
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Location: Vista, California
Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
Prediction: within 12 months of this post, one of the big 4 camera makers finally makes bulb ramping possible using in camera settings. If a video camera makes smooth transitions from light to dark, why the hell doesn't a dslr? Come on Japan, the technology has been there since the moon landings.


Tue Mar 19, 2013 9:07 pm
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:59 am
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Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
I feel your frustration. I'm currently in the process of building one of these for myself. The idea is to use an external light sensor like the TSL23X and control the camera via PTP. With PTP you can adjust Aperture, Bulb, and ISO over time. Bulb is the only one you can really control ISO and Aperture are in 1/3 stops or whatever your camera has. I'm still in the early stages of this, but when I get some more time I can put more work into it.


Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:32 am
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Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 10:24 am
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Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
I am almost done with my ramper. This new prototypes should arrive in a few weeks. It includes USB support, Nikon support, graphical (histogram) feedback of the ramping curve, graphical simulation mode and more.

Here is a teaser of the touch screen interface. That is not a mock-up, it is all working:
Image

More at:
http://www.elysiavisuals.com/content/wh ... controller

_________________
eMotion Control Store - http://www.elysiavisuals.com
Exposure ramping with Nikon and Canon - http://www.elysiavisuals.com/catalog


Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:46 am
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Joined: Fri Dec 02, 2011 10:59 am
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Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
Nicely done Cronix!


Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:55 am
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Joined: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:40 am
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Post Re: BULB RAMPING-Does not compute in my brain--HELP!
I've been using Dslr Dashboard application for my Android mobile and Tablet and works like a charm and it's free. You connect your mobile/tablet (needs to support OTG) to your Canon/Nikon camera via USB cable and it will control it completely allowing you for transitions using holy grail mode that can later be imported in LRTimelapse to create movies in the snap of a finger. I love that application, and the best thing of all is that it works and it measures light using the camera, nothing extenarl.

You can check it out at http://dslrdashboard.info/ it's free for Android devices, I believe it's like 7 euros for IPhones.

You can check 2 of the timelapses I've entirely created using it (my first ones remember):

First transition I made: https://vimeo.com/110007715
Second transition this weekend: https://vimeo.com/110724973

Hope my post helps others
Greetings from Spain,
Alfonso


Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:45 am
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