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 Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?! 
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Joined: Tue Mar 18, 2014 6:21 am
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Post Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
Hi,

I am having big problems with the images I capture during the night. I am trying to do a proper timelapse. At first I noticed when I combine them in a video there is some strange "color flickering" or something like that. Then I opened the photos again reset all corrections and I boosted the exposure and then I saw it. All the photos are with different colors... PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE tell me why is this happening and how to fix this!

I am uploading a screenshot so you can see what I am talking about.

I shot the photos with Canon 6D, Canon 16-35mm lens, 16mm, f/4.0, ISO 1000, 20.0 sec shutter, WB 4500K, Long exposure NR - ON.

*This problem occurs no matter the Kelvins I set, I've tried...

Image


Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:20 am
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
Can you post the exif data - that might help someone figure it out. I know I've shot with custom WB and never had that problem.

Tt

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Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:37 am
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
Here it is
Image


Sun Mar 23, 2014 9:59 am
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
Is there more - like what the WB is for each shot?

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Sun Mar 23, 2014 11:07 am
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
Spent long time creating this god damn picture...hope it helps...

Comparison between two of the photos from the time lapse:

http://s10.postimg.org/x4x3ilu8n/EXIF.jpg


Sun Mar 23, 2014 1:55 pm
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
Silly question. Have you actually exported these images out of lightroom into a sequence ? Just wondering if the colour changes you are seeing are only in the preview ?

Steve R.

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Sun Mar 23, 2014 2:15 pm
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
I checked out the EXIF data and nothing is jumping out at me

tt

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Sun Mar 23, 2014 5:55 pm
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
Sorry to be a pain. The EXIF data seem ok. What file format are you using ? Why have the Long exposure NR on ? Sure this will make cleaner shots but the camera will take two shots of equal length - the camera will not trigger every 20 seconds. Looking at the data from EXIF - first shot is exposing 19secs (first column) and the second one is 38 seconds (second column) - this is the Long Exposure NR at work - camera exposure twice for each frame. NR will have no affect on RAW images. So you are clearly not shoot RAW images but JPEG.

At this stage all I can suggest is that you are working with JPEG files (you haven't said) and using noise reduction and the colour is changing based on the noise reduction BUT that's a long shot. I've not used NR because it has no affect on the RAW. Could be totally wrong.

If you could find a place to dump two frames that are totally different I'll gladly have a look and other will probably also.

Sorry for the questions.

Steve R.

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Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:20 pm
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
Just thought of something else. Did you cover the eye piece ? If any light hits this eyepiece during exposure it goes onto the chip. If you don't know your strap has an eyepiece cover threaded on it.

Steve R.

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Sun Mar 23, 2014 6:24 pm
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
First, I wanna say thank you all for trying to help me, I really appreciate it.

amongstmyselves wrote:
Have you actually exported these images out of lightroom into a sequence ? Just wondering if the colour changes you are seeing are only in the preview ?

Yes. As I said in the first post, at first I didn't notice this problem. I exported the photos in a sequence and when I combined them in a video and played it I noticed that there is some strange "color changing", but it wasn't so noticeable. Then I went back in Lightroom and boosted the Exposure to MAX. That PrintScreen that you see in the first post is what I saw after this final step and that's how I found this problem.

amongstmyselves wrote:
Why have the Long exposure NR on ?

As I read in many articles, forums and etc. the Long Exposure Noise Reduction is working exactly like stacking. It shoots a dark frame right after the light one and then stacks them, extracting some of the noise, hot pixels and etc. from the light one. Because I have really big problems working with DSS and I can't understand more then 75% of the stuff in this program I prefer the camera to do the stacking for me. I also don't mind taking a photo every 40 sec, I just go inside my car or whatever I go with to do the time lapse, play some movie and just wait :)

amongstmyselves wrote:
Looking at the data from EXIF - first shot is exposing 19secs (first column) and the second one is 38 seconds (second column) - this is the Long Exposure NR at work - camera exposure twice for each frame. NR will have no affect on RAW images. So you are clearly not shoot RAW images but JPEG.

What you are looking at that says "19" and "38" is the SubSecTime/Original/Digitized(file modified date/time, image capture date/time, and image digitized date/time) which represents "decimal digits in the seconds value of the time".
I am definitely shooting RAW, because I double check every time before I start shooting, also photos come out as CR2 files...what I know these are RAW files...[/quote]

amongstmyselves wrote:
If you could find a place to dump two frames that are totally different I'll gladly have a look and other will probably also.

Here you go :)
These are the first and the third photos from the PrintScreen you see in the first post ;) --> http://we.tl/eW503WPqej

amongstmyselves wrote:
Did you cover the eye piece ? If any light hits this eyepiece during exposure it goes onto the chip. If you don't know your strap has an eyepiece cover threaded on it.

I didn't know that. I just found this "eyepiece cover" and I will definitely use it next time. Thank you very much for this advice! The strange thing is that where I placed the camera for this particular time lapse it was soooooo dark, I couldn't see my hands....so I am not pretty sure that was the problem...

amongstmyselves wrote:
Sorry for the questions.

Don't be sorry, but keep 'em coming! :)


Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:56 am
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
amongstmyselves wrote:
NR will have no affect on RAW images.
Just to be clear - on Canons, LENR (Long Exposure Noise Reduction) is most definitely baked into the RAW file, using dark-frame subtraction. It's not just some exif data or parameter that is later interpreted by your RAW conversion software.

High-ISO Noise Reduction, on the other hand, is not part of the RAW file. It's only applied in-camera to JPEGs/previews - and later on the computer, applied to RAW files by those apps that understand this parameter (mostly just Canon DPP, I think).


Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:28 am
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
neverknow wrote:
I didn't know that. I just found this "eyepiece cover" and I will definitely use it next time. Thank you very much for this advice! The strange thing is that where I placed the camera for this particular time lapse it was soooooo dark, I couldn't see my hands....so I am not pretty sure that was the problem...

You weren't by any chance using a red headlamp, where you? Some of the pictures almost look like there's a red light leak coming in from the (uncovered) eye piece.


Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:35 am
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
What is the light source that's illuminating the tips of the rocks? Moon? Artificial light? It's not a lighthouse or airport light with a periodic red blinking strobe, is it? Or car tail lights driving past?

In any case, the red tint on some of your pictures is very faint. Not visible until you over-crank the exposure to the max. Almost like it's the color of the noise, not the color of the image itself...


Mon Mar 24, 2014 9:18 am
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
"Just to be clear - on Canons, LENR (Long Exposure Noise Reduction) is most definitely baked into the RAW file" - good to know that. I should have checked the manual - sorry about that. It was one way or the other :-) . To be honest I don't think using this type of noise reduction is going to benefit you but you need to make a comparison. You have to make this call with comparisons unless another 6D owner has already done this.

Having a look at the two frames it looks like it's an exposure inconsistency. The rock face on the right is brighter on 0090 than 0092. Clearly there is also more red channel.

The actual image on these frames are very faint. What was the reason for using f4 ? I'd be using f2.8 which your excellent lens can do. Get as much light as possible because there's no image in the noise.

My first camera was a Canon 1000D which I tried star timelapses on several times with similar results as far as detail BUT I never got this colour problem. I also have a 450D (which replaced a warn out 1000D) which also didn't have this problem. Now I have a 5D2 which does an excellent job. One thought was that it could be sensor heat but the colour is shifting so much between frames that it would have to be a fault. The sensor warming up and eventually warming the camera will affect the image noise but over a longer period of time than 2 frames (2 minutes).

What sort of power are you using ? If it's just battery - try different set. Thinking of all possibilities here.

All I can suggest from here is that you try again to recreate the problem. Doesn't have to be the same location but somewhere dark where you need to bring up the shot by 3 stops (which I did). Cover the eyepiece, make sure no light gets on the eyepiece cover or lens, I'd turn off the Noise Reduction. Then do the same shot with the Noise Reduction on. After all the problem could be a faulty camera. Hope it isn't a faulty camera though.

Hope this gives you some ideas,

Steve R.

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Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:39 pm
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
jimre-temp wrote:
You weren't by any chance using a red headlamp, where you?

Nope. I didn't use any light at all. I almost died on those rocks cause of that...

jimre-temp wrote:
What is the light source that's illuminating the tips of the rocks? / Almost like it's the color of the noise, not the color of the image itself...

It was a street lamp at distance of around 40 meters. / I am not pretty sure, but the image is very noisy so it's difficult to say...

amongstmyselves wrote:
The rock face on the right is brighter on 0090 than 0092.

I don't think that's right. It looks that way cause of the colors. The green in 0090 makes it look darker...

amongstmyselves wrote:
What sort of power are you using ?

Battery. Yep... What kind of "different set" are you suggesting?

I will try to shoot another time lapse with the LENR off, no light source around me (lamps and etc.), covered eyepiece and I will see if this problem occurs again, as you suggested. If it occurs again I will go and return the camera. Thanks a lot all :)


Tue Mar 25, 2014 7:33 am
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Post Re: Colors changing with custom WB?!?!?!
The green channel is much brighter in 0090 or missing in 0092. It's a noisy area.

As far as the battery is concerned I was just suggesting using a different Canon battery than the one used on this shot. If you have one of course. There are other things you can do without spending money.

I think shooting another shot is a good idea.

All the best,

Steve R.

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Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
Canon 5Dm2, 450D, 17-40mm EF f4, 70-300mm L, 50mm f1.8 EF, Custom Intervalometer (UM9 and UM12) and MOCON, Meade LXD75 SN10


Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:19 pm
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