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 moco vs CGI 
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:19 pm
Posts: 62
Post moco vs CGI
Hi,
moco vs CGI - does that have a change? What do you think??
cheers goggi

lilliput motion control - my results of scaled moves.
I had to do some photogrammetry of the small objects to get realistic shadows in blender. Ok, it is not so realistic, others do that much better -> (with CGI...?)
link 1: motion control shots
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OU9HuQV ... yqt0AIx0dy

smaller items need some focus stacking, then they are in focus and look like real big items
link 2: shooting focus stacking video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYoH8bV ... GrhQVWw0i-


Tue Feb 19, 2019 12:57 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 561
Post Re: moco vs CGI
Well it's interesting, but I guess the answer is unless you are stop framing the motion of a miniature then CGI might be a heck of a lot easier to make it move in that environment. In the case of the model car I think you can make CGI cars that look even less like models, so unless your intention is to use a model that shows clear signs of being a real hand made miniature, then CGI makes more sense. If you make a model too real then it won't look like a model anymore and no-one else will tell the difference. So use whatever technique is more efficient at achieving the required result?


Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:40 am
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:19 pm
Posts: 62
Post Re: moco vs CGI
hi gerald,

thank you for your comment! now I know the technique of shooting scaled objects, it might be interesting for presentations of toy cars/trains in real world. the light on models is different. or huge insects, that is not so fast to make in cgi.

or vice versa shooting lilliput people in downsized environments.
-> very cool examples of lilliput wedding photography:
https://www.brilio.net/komunitas/15-beh ... 0319g.html

anyway, it is pretty fast to shoot 40 different focus takes "on film" and very accurate.

btw: What's the right word for "shooting movies" instead of taking pictures? Is there a short version that everyone understands?

goggi


Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:17 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 561
Post Re: moco vs CGI
Live people in mini environments is interesting and worth pursuing. The only problem is shooting human scale with motion control - you need a big fast rig!

Instead you can shoot wild and motion track - which maybe you already do? - so long as your miniature rig can handle 6 axes. plus focus... :)

Rather than "focus takes" I would just say "focus passes". That implies a moving image sequence....

I'm not sure what I think about deep focus by the way. It's kind of nice to see some out of focus areas. And it does make things look more like miniatures... but good to have control if you need it...


Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:43 pm
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:19 pm
Posts: 62
Post Re: moco vs CGI
hi gerald,

thanks for "focus passes"!!
I shot some macro insects with infinite focus:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y10DGVb ... GrhQVWw0i-

I can't come close enough with a 24mm wide lens, so I had to shoot 50mm lens with retro adapter.

I need 24mm equivalent focal length for mixing it with downsized people. I could try a modified 4k smart phone camera for closer wide angle shots.
pro ideas welcome!!

the frame sync of smart phone passes should work with my technique.

and: 6 axis might be a next step ;-)
https://sites.google.com/site/imagegweb ... -lady-gaga

goggi


Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:58 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 561
Post Re: moco vs CGI
There are some pretty close focusing 24mm lenses out there, for example Zeiss (ZF) 24mm f2.5 is great, but also some cheaper Chinese brands I think. What format are you shooting with? If it's m43 then 24mm is really like a 50mm std lens. Also keep in mind you can use diopters ("closeup filters" for the masses) - no shame with them really... been used by "pros" for as long as I can recall. Just stop down a little. There are also "achromatic" (double element) diopter lenses for better quality. One thing to be wary of is the effective field of view will narrow with diopters, for the same reason many lenses become effectively longer as they focus closer - ie. "breathing".

"Smart" phone? Really! There you are losing me... ;)


Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:54 am
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:19 pm
Posts: 62
Post Re: moco vs CGI
you're right. that's the problem. the closer passes magnify too much. and when I move the lens AND the camera to avoid that, than I'll be out of the undistorting nodalpoint (no-parallax point) and I can't mix it with real footage..

maybe I could take a 10mm? microscope objective and crop it to 24 mm equivalent later. but I think that is too complicated even for me ;-)
I shoot the macro with a (now) dusty 5Dmk2 with 3Dprinted special bellows system..

keep on tracking..


Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:44 pm
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 561
Post Re: moco vs CGI
Chinese manufacturer Laowa / Venus have some extreme close focus wide lenses for reasonable cost. You'll still need to slide the camera back on the tilt plate to achieve nodal centering. But it is do-able.


Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:42 pm
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:19 pm
Posts: 62
Post Re: moco vs CGI
I work with 2 cameras with different 24mm lenses.
Both lenses should have the same distortion
So first I have to measure both:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=olMrwBy5fhg#t=14m33s

To get closer, I could use a "wide-angle C-mount lens" because it's shorter. hope the vignetting disappears in the near area??

very cooool, the laowa 24mm probe lens:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6pbiOe7buY#t=56s

good tip, merci!!


Sun Mar 03, 2019 5:46 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 20, 2010 4:50 pm
Posts: 561
Post Re: moco vs CGI
"I work with 2 cameras with different 24mm lenses."

Different mounts? Can't use adapters?

"I can't come close enough with a 24mm wide lens, so I had to shoot 50mm lens with retro adapter"

Laowa 25mm wide angle macro would do it? Though I'd note that if you don't need crazy 5x macro, then a second hand ZF Zeiss 25mm 2.8 can be found for about the same price... minimum focus is 7" but can be even closer with extension tubes. There is also EF mount and others, though EF does not have manual iris I think.

The Laowa 24mm probe looks really fun - but expensive and not so easy to pan nodally.. :(


Sun Mar 03, 2019 8:42 pm
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Joined: Sun Oct 26, 2014 5:19 pm
Posts: 62
Post Re: moco vs CGI
thick as a brick. but now I got it ;-)
thank you for your patience!!!! that was what I was looking for:

https://www.venuslens.net/product/laowa ... a-macro-2/


Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:40 pm
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