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 ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly 
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Post ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
Hi there...

I think there isn't any but wanted to ask:
Is there a possibility with the MX2 to move the dolly if the camera has fired... so that the MX2 recognizes that a shot was taken and then starts to move...

Or is there maybe any other method (besides manually adjusting values on the MX2) in order get a clean dolly movement whilst bulb ramping with Magic Lantern?

Thx
Sebastian


Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:35 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
Holy_13 wrote:
Hi there...

I think there isn't any but wanted to ask:
Is there a possibility with the MX2 to move the dolly if the camera has fired... so that the MX2 recognizes that a shot was taken and then starts to move...

Or is there maybe any other method (besides manually adjusting values on the MX2) in order get a clean dolly movement whilst bulb ramping with Magic Lantern?

Thx
Sebastian

I've been wondering about this for a while. AFAIK we can't configure the MX2 to do that with just the camera (you can with the Bramper, for example), so the other option is to use it in continuous mode with a really slow speed.

On the other hand, I once shot a sunset in aperture priority using continuous and it worked out great.

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Fri Mar 16, 2012 6:46 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
how good it'll work depends on how near your foreground is, I suppose?!


Fri Mar 16, 2012 7:03 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
A possibility is to send your PC port from the camera (which signals the flash) to the Ext1 port on the MX2.

I'm not an expert on the function of the prontor-compur port, but I'm presuming it connects to either a HIGH or LOW signal when the exposure starts, and disconnects when the exposure stops. If it connects to a HIGH, and then goes back LOW, then there should be no firmware modifications. However, if it connects to a LOW, and then goes back HIGH you'd need to change one or two lines in the DS_Alt_IO.pde file simply change every occurrence of the word 'FALLING' to 'RISING'.

Now, once all that's taken care of, you can set the correct I/O line to "Ext. Interval", set your exposure time really short (< 100ms), and then start the program. Every time the signal comes from your PC port it acts like an external intervalometer to the MX2 and the MX2 advances one cycle.

Let me know how it goes, I wouldn't mind officially supporting such a feature.

!c


Fri Mar 16, 2012 8:15 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
nice! i'll try that! hopefully i'll get a cable tomorrow at a photostore somewhere around here... then i'll try it tomorrow already.

thx chris!


Fri Mar 16, 2012 1:25 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
the only cable they had at the store had two connections: pc 2 the following one:

Image

this one is only mono... should it work though?
if not can i just transform mono 2 stereo with an adapter??

thx

here's a better pic (it's the exact same cable):
Image


with the settings you described chris absolutely nothing happens after the camera takes a picture..
i'll try modifying the firmware ^^ we'll see


Sat Mar 17, 2012 3:34 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
!!!!
it works!!!

I thought it doesn't matter if I use EXT 0 instead of EXT 1... so I used EXT 0 because it is nearer to the camera since the cable is pretty short....
just read that external intervalometers should be plugged into EXT 1 and so I changed it and now it works!
now I only have to change the values in the firmware... because it moves as soon as the camera takes a shot ^^


Sat Mar 17, 2012 4:08 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
So using a PC Hotshoe adapter and this cable should yield the same results, correct?


Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:17 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
Using a two-pole is a problem, the sleeve (tip, ring sleeve is a TRS/stereo cable, TS is a mono cable) is quite large - large enough that it shorts the input normally represented by the ring to the sleeve, over time this can cause problems - and notably, it eats up one of your I/O lines. If you must use a mono plug like that, I'd suggest using a mono to stereo adapter to prevent shorting the ring and sleeve together on the jack.

Ext 0 is very, very different than Ext 1 =) Ext 0 is a TTL serial interface, Ext 1 is where the general purpose I/O lines are.

!c


Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:05 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
shutterdrone wrote:
Using a two-pole is a problem, the sleeve (tip, ring sleeve is a TRS/stereo cable, TS is a mono cable) is quite large - large enough that it shorts the input normally represented by the ring to the sleeve, over time this can cause problems - and notably, it eats up one of your I/O lines. If you must use a mono plug like that, I'd suggest using a mono to stereo adapter to prevent shorting the ring and sleeve together on the jack.

Ext 0 is very, very different than Ext 1 =) Ext 0 is a TTL serial interface, Ext 1 is where the general purpose I/O lines are.

!c

so what I understand from that is to get an adapter ^^

now i downloaded all I need to compile and upload the modified firmware but i just can't get it done...
first i had the "common" problem with not integrating the libraries... after i did that i have the following errors:

Quote:
DollyShield.cpp:42:26: error: merlin_mount.h: No such file or directory
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void main_loop_handler()':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void merlin_set_speed(byte, float)':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void merlin_send_angle(byte, float)':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'byte merlin_running(byte)':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void merlin_stop(byte)':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void merlin_run(byte)':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void merlin_set_dir(byte, byte)':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void merlin_init()':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void ui_button_down(boolean)':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void ui_button_up(boolean)':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void ui_button_rt(boolean)':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void ui_button_lt(boolean)':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope
DollyShield.cpp: In function 'void get_manual_select(byte)':
DollyShield.pde:-1: error: 'merlin' was not declared in this scope


i can't find anything online to get rid of these errors...
what is my problem here??

thx


Sat Mar 17, 2012 6:25 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
Here's the step by step for OSX:
http://dynamicperception.com/?main_page=wordpress&p=642

Usually the error your seeing is associated with Step 5. Your folders should look exactly like these screen shots:
Image
Image
Image


Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:03 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
Note: use Arduino 0.23, not Arduino 1.0.

Don't download the libraries from other places, if you downloaded the full tar/gzip archive from sourceforge, everything you need -except- the merlin mount library is in the included libraries/ folder. You need to download the merlin library from here: http://openmoco.svn.sourceforge.net/vie ... /?view=tar

If you're willing to learn how to use a few basic commands (svn) at the terminal prompt, life gets even easier as you can always be up to date and everything you need will be right there. =)

When the new site launches, there will be an official software page that will have a complete downloadable archive, right now it's a problem as trying to put the merlinmount library directly into the source branch results in two copies of the same code under source control, which means nightmares on the developers. If you use svn to checkout the source code, you have everything in the libraries/ subdirectory, ready to copy into the arduino folder, if you download the tar/gzip from sourceforge, you have to also download and install the merlin mount library, which you have not =)

!c


Sat Mar 17, 2012 7:32 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
shall i use the arduino 0.23 even though i am on a windows machine... i thought only on MAC OSX?!

//ok.. still an error with the missing library inserted... i'll switch to 0.23 then and try there :D

// looks pretty good... "Done uploading" --> i'll try it :)
and i know now what you meant in another thread with "there isn't much space left for new features"
Quote:
Binary sketch size: 30160 bytes (of a 30720 byte maximum)
:(


Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:32 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
it wooooooorks!!!
tested it and now the move happens after the exposure! :)

thanks so much for making that happen!

now only one question left:
for how long can i probably use it with the current cable without frying my MX2?
since i want to go out shooting a sunrise and a sunset tomorrow and it's sunday and i can't buy an adapter.. what would you recommend? wait until i have one before using it at all or could it be ok for those two shots???

thx so much!


Sat Mar 17, 2012 9:15 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
i wanted to start in 2hrs...
any suggestions?


Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:36 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
You'll probably be okay for one night. Just get a converter when you can. ;)


Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:49 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
Milapse Jay wrote:
You'll probably be okay for one night. Just get a converter when you can. ;)

first thing on monday!

thx :-)


Sat Mar 17, 2012 5:58 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
So, if I understood well, we need to use a stereo cable, right?

Holy_13 wrote:
how good it'll work depends on how near your foreground is, I suppose?!

You're right.

Please let me know what kind of adapter you're using when you buy one, every cable I saw on eBay are the same.

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Sat Mar 17, 2012 8:17 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
i think i have to solder a cable.. or in my case: find a shop which will do it for me since i don't have any equipment and don't want to buy it for one cable...
everything online is only mono...
i'll post here as soon as i found something appropriate


Sat Mar 17, 2012 10:47 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
So does it work no matter what the length of the exposure? The ML Bulb Ramp feature compensates for the for the changing light by increasing the exposure time and raising the ISO, You might start at 1/100 at ISO 100 and end up at 25 or more seconds at ISO 3200. I don't quite get how the varying shutter speeds will work with the Stage Zero if it's triggered every time the shutter is pressed. I'm excited that it might, however. When I've used the two together I've used a stop watch and a lucky guess or two to get them synced up :-)


Sun Mar 18, 2012 3:53 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
it works very good after a minor tweak in the dollyshield!

i set ML to an interval of 25-30 seconds and it starts with a very low shutter and very low ISO and cranks that up over time...
if you want the scene to get darker for example you would have to do it in post... it stays lit the same way during the whole sunrise / sunset...

what i still have to find out is how you can start it during night because ML always says the scene is too dark and it can't sample the shot...
so i still have to figure that out....
a good example of a bulb ramp with ML is here :)


Sun Mar 18, 2012 11:19 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
I'm using a 60D, so there is no PC port on that camera. However, I do have a Pocket Wizard. Would this provide the same functionality?


Tue Mar 20, 2012 4:32 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
realmccoy01 wrote:
I'm using a 60D, so there is no PC port on that camera. However, I do have a Pocket Wizard. Would this provide the same functionality?


There are a lot of hot shoe adapters that have PC ports on them - does the pocket wizard have one? If so, it should function exactly the same. I have one that's a simple, inexpensive "hot shoe isolator" for older flashes where the PC port works the same as my on-body one.

!c


Tue Mar 20, 2012 7:12 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
The Pocket Wizard has two ports on it. Neither are referred to as a PC port in the less than verbose PW documentation, but one is a remote camera trigger (TRS) and the other is for a remote flash (mono). I'm assuming that the remote flash port would be the easiest place to start. I'll make up a cable and give it a try. Modifying the firmware and actually getting the MX2 to work again is somewhat intimidating, however, but I'm hopeful that your new website will give me a little more guidance. :D


Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:02 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
Holy_13 wrote:
i set ML to an interval of 25-30 seconds and it starts with a very low shutter and very low ISO and cranks that up over time...
if you want the scene to get darker for example you would have to do it in post... it stays lit the same way during the whole sunrise / sunset...


You can change that by setting a max ISO (let's say 3200) in the camera menu:

ML Manual wrote:
Limits:

ISO is chosen between 100 and maximum auto ISO value from Canon menu.

http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Unif ... rGuide#id3

Did you have a chance to experiment with the adapter? I can't find the pc sync cable in my town, looks like I'll have to buy it online and wait a few weeks for it to arrive.

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Wed Mar 21, 2012 7:32 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
realmccoy01 wrote:
The Pocket Wizard has two ports on it. Neither are referred to as a PC port in the less than verbose PW documentation, but one is a remote camera trigger (TRS) and the other is for a remote flash (mono). I'm assuming that the remote flash port would be the easiest place to start.


... I don't know, sounds like that remote camera trigger (TRS) is the right port to use, since Ext 1 in external interval mode expects a camera trigger and the plug is TRS =)

Changing the firmware is a very simple search and replace operation, the only hard part is getting over the hurdle to setup Arduino and install the libraries - after that, it's find a word, replace it, and then press the upload button =) After you've learned the basics of the arduino software, it gets more simple every time you want to add something new - it really is pretty easy for what it is!

!c


Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:03 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
The camera port has this pinout: tip = trigger, ring = pre-trigger (??) sleeve = gnd. I would need to rewire the MX2 end of the cable so that the trigger was on the ring, yes?

I'm on a Mac. That complicates the upload process a bit doesn't it?


Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:40 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
realmccoy01 wrote:
The camera port has this pinout: tip = trigger, ring = pre-trigger (??) sleeve = gnd. I would need to rewire the MX2 end of the cable so that the trigger was on the ring, yes?

I'm on a Mac. That complicates the upload process a bit doesn't it?


No, you don't need to change anything - the Ext 1 port is a TRS connector, where sleeve is GND, tip is an I/O and ring is an I/O. I believe the tip is I/O 2 and ring is I/O 1 off the top of my head.

The process for compiling the firmware on OSX and Windows is exactly the same - no difference. That is, you download the source and the libraries, put the libraries in your Documents/arduino/libraries folder, load the pde file in arduino, select the correct device and hit upload. Most of the issues you see people having are trying to emulate the "gui" uploader (the one we provide for windows) behavior, where you just press one button and everything is done for you. After installing the libraries, it really is a simple operation - most people just get stuck in one of:

A) Installing the correct version of arduino (0.23, not 1.0)
B) Getting the libraries (we moved all except the merlin library into the source bundle, the merlin has its own directory in our svn server, to prevent issues with changing targets from the library authors)
C) Installing the libraries (on both OSX and windows, they are installed in the Arduino/libraries folder inside of the user's Documents [osx] or My Documents [win] folder)

!c


Wed Mar 21, 2012 9:02 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
Wow...this is going to work. The camera port on the Pocket Wizard didn't do it, for whatever reason. But the Flash port works just fine. I snipped the 3.5 mono plug off of the MX2 end of the cable and replaced it with a 2.5 TRS. As with Holy_13's experience, it now advances the MX2 immediately upon firing. Guess I'm into the firmware. I will heed your warnings and report back. Thanks for your wonderful help!


Wed Mar 21, 2012 1:03 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
:D :D Success. I made the changes in the firmware by following your most excellent instructions and the whole thing works now. Thanks again for all your fine work!

-bruce


Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:35 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
i compiled a HEX-File for those who need the change in the firmware and don't know how to compile... now you only have to upload it via the MX2Uploader :-)

simply put the 0.91.ML.hex file into the "hex" folder in you MX2Uploader program folder...


Attachments:
File comment: Changed Firmware for the MX2 using the Prontor/Compur output for movement of the dolly
0.91.ML.zip [29.6 KiB]
Downloaded 222 times
Wed Mar 21, 2012 8:15 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
Holy_13

That looks like a handy little file you've generously donated there! :D

Before I make the jump to ML....Have you had any really great results from the bulb ramp feature? I wonder whether it really works as I'm yet to see any really clear results. I see some vids on you tube including the official one but I haven't found any really good examples without using de flicker software.
When I say really good examples I mean comparable to the Little Bramper and an experienced user.

Trying to work out if ML is worth bothering with at all or just ordering a Little Bramper as I can't think of too many other reasons to get it. (For timelapse at least)

Still even if I don't end up getting ML...Very kind of you to upload that file for those of us who have never heard of a HEX-File. You just made learning all this stuff a little easier! :D

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Fri Mar 23, 2012 4:44 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
ML does it's job rather good... it depends on the scene you shoot.. and the object ML is "tracking"
honestly I haven't had a shot (I did only 2 so far :D) that hasn't needed to be deflickered afterwards...
here's one of em:

the scene had the same exposure all the way through the shot... i had to "darken" the part "before sunrise" in post :)

kuri on the other hand had some pretty good shots even without deflickering.

all in all i would say it's worth some tries! at least it's worth donating for the 5D-version... every other canon-cam-owner is lucky to have a proper release already.
and maybe i should mention that i ordered a little bramper already in early january... and i'm not unhappy i did so.... i'm looking forward to it :)


Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:00 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
Thanks for the info!

I'm probably gunna follow your lead and try both, now I just gotta figure out getting a cable and using this HEX File. Cheers Holy 13! :D

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Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:23 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
i think getting the cable is the bigger problem :evil:


Fri Mar 23, 2012 5:29 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
I found a 3.5mm mono to 2.5mm stereo adapter on Ebay for $1.99US with pretty cheap worldwide shipping. Of course I'm in the US but I got it in about 3 days (including the weekend). http://www.ebay.com/itm/290684086644

So if you have a "PC to 3.5mm mono" cable this would be the answer. I was looking for a 2.5mm mono to 2.5mm stereo and I didn't have any luck.


Mon Mar 26, 2012 6:49 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
or an adaptor from 2,5mm mono to 3,5mm mono... to then go back to 2,5mm xD


Mon Mar 26, 2012 9:46 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
I thought about going that route but IMO it adds more bulk and another connection to go bad/loose etc.


Tue Mar 27, 2012 5:22 am
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
kjchlywd wrote:
I thought about going that route but IMO it adds more bulk and another connection to go bad/loose etc.

i finally found a suitable cable!!!

http://www.promotesystems.com/products/ ... t-Kit.html

it is PC --> TRS jack 8-)


Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:29 pm
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Post Re: ML Bulb Ramping with the DP Dolly
Nice it's a whole kit. With shipping its about $10 more than I spent on the hotshoe adapter, PC cable and the mono/stereo adapter separately. But at least its one cable and less connections ;)

Have you done any more tests with the dolly and bulb ramping? I haven't had a chance over the past few weeks except for the brief test it to make sure everything all worked together (I ended up needing the firmware file that you made).


Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:37 pm
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