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 Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01 
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Post Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
With this set up a move can be planned, recorded, played back in real time and if ok the software can be switched to time lapse mode and the moves repeated.

Still have some tidying up and tuning to complete before heading outdoors (weather permiting).

Video a not too clever, handheld Gopro pointing in roughly the right direction ;)

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Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:37 am
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
Looking really good Mike :D

John

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Mon Mar 24, 2014 1:04 pm
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
Looks great Mike,

Are your steppers skipping at all. I have a similar (if not exactly the same) arrangement of small gear meshed to the lens gear and I find that it skips. I may need more current through the stepper.

Steve R.

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Mon Mar 24, 2014 2:09 pm
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
Hi Steve.

Direct gear control like this, is actually the best way to do it. It keeps backlash minimal and the low speed torque of the stepper is well matched. If you have skipping it's because the motor is underpowered, or too little current is being used. Also possible - if the lens is really stiff or you are just trying to accelerate too fast - it could have problems.

I use nema 17 motors, 32mm long, with about 1 amp supply. These work really well, even with big PL mount cine lenses.

I do also use an idler gear for more clearance, but otherwise it's essentially the same as what mike has done...


Mon Mar 24, 2014 5:58 pm
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
Thanks Gerald,

Hmm. Must check again. The ones that I currently have are 10V 0.5A 1kg/cm holding torque FL35STH36-0504B from Ocean Controls. I'll have to give them another go and increase the current. Maybe they are a little underpowered. Just testing with a Canon 17-40mm f4 zoom lens on the focus and it seemed to miss. I'll report back with a result.

Steve R.

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Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
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Mon Mar 24, 2014 6:50 pm
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
That motor does sees a bit anaemic - though if the lens is not too stiff, I'd have thought it would manage. How many teeth on the drive gear?

BTW are you focusing or zooming? - there's often a big difference in the power required...

If it's not due to uneven steps or some other random problem then try this motor... it's not much bigger but has twice the torque...

http://oceancontrols.com.au/MOT-116.html

The next size up from Ocean Controls would be over-kill.

Actually I rarely buy from them unless it's an emergency. You can get more options and better prices on Ebay ex China/HK... :)


Mon Mar 24, 2014 10:50 pm
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
I had only attached to the focus. The large gear is a Redrock Blue one - 0.8 pitch, many teeth :-) the small gear on the motor has only 20 teeth.

I buy from Ocean Controls because I trust what I am getting is good quality due to my deficiencies in the hardware area and I usually want it NOW !!!!

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Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
Canon 5Dm2, 450D, 17-40mm EF f4, 70-300mm L, 50mm f1.8 EF, Custom Intervalometer (UM9 and UM12) and MOCON, Meade LXD75 SN10


Mon Mar 24, 2014 11:05 pm
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
amongstmyselves wrote:
Looks great Mike,

Are your steppers skipping at all. I have a similar (if not exactly the same) arrangement of small gear meshed to the lens gear and I find that it skips. I may need more current through the stepper.

Steve R.


Thanks for the interest.

Steve, I am using Zapp Automation NEMA 11 motors with a JAG35 lens gear and 20 tooth motor gear (5:1), 0.8 Mod. No problem with skipping even when zooming a canon 24-105 lens that is pointing up or down. It can also zoom quite quickly, seen monetarily as the tracking changes direction. I set my motors by ear with a final finger test on the motors and BEGs after run tests, they tend to run cold to cool ( scientific method and terminology ;) )

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Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:24 am
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
Hi Sounds like a problem with drive or control signals then... the only way to check is with another motor and or drive till you eliminate the suspect.

BTW - I use a 16th primary gear on the motor. So I guess that gives a little more advantage. But clearly Mike's motor is even smaller with the same gear as yours - so something else is amiss.

I have a bucket of motors to dip into and test. Some of them came from old computer equipment, others from US industrial surplus. BTW The stuff Ocean sells is not so special, but it's nice you support Australian retailers... :)


Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:54 am
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
Hmm. Maybe I've got the microstepping a little high as well. I'll test tomorrow and see how I go.

Steve.

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Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
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Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:08 am
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
Steve,


I also use Nema11, the 50mm long ones, and provided you feed them with the right amount of current, and not too much microstepping, they have plenty of torque to move any lens.

Edward


Tue Mar 25, 2014 8:36 am
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
Awesome rig Mike! Its great that Mantis lets you run the keyframed move at realtime speed. Especially nice that all this can be portable. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that an excuse to get outside, explore, and shoot is at least half the value of this stuff. At least that seems to be all I think about while I build. Hope you enjoy it this Summer!

What is the thing in the foreground? It has a motor, wires and a metal extrusion, so it must be something fun.

Zero backlash, direct drive focus and zoom motors are nice. I found zooming my 14-140mm took a lot of torque, and the little drivers got harder to adjust for that lens. Either the motor got really hot, or it missed steps. It seemed as though I was trying to find a nonexistent sweet spot between two overlapping bad zones. I have the same Canon 24-105mm and it actually zooms easier than the Panasonic 14-140.

Most of my focus/zoom motors have used gear reduction of one sort or another to increase torque. It does introduce some backlash but I rarely do anything that requires reversing the direction of the focus or zoom in the middle of a shot. DF has an anti-backlash compensation for each motor, but I haven't tried using it yet because I never had the need to reverse direction. The gear reduction lets me use a tiny motor and turn the sticky lens.

Legal Disclaimer:
**** The preceding paragraph is a thinly disguised commercial for my focus/zoom motors ****
**** Check out these links to see some very small lensmotors ************************
**** https://squareup.com/market/awannet-llc ... zoom-motor
**** https://squareup.com/market/awannet-llc ... hotography
**** https://squareup.com/market/awannet-llc
**** http://www.stepoutmoco.com/

I use these neat seamless gears on my 24-105. The same guy makes custom seamless gears for any lens. I still supply the JAG35 gears to people buying my focus motors because they adjust to fit different lenses, making a nice one size fits all solution. Here's a link to the seamless follow focus gears. Check his other auctions for gears that fit other lenses or for custom gears.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Custom-Canon-24 ... 3cd67a6b29

Other Legal Disclaimer:
**** I don't get a kickback from that guy, just trying to help out someone else who is trying to sell what he makes. I use his gears on my 24-105 and like them. I plan on getting more of them for lenses I use a lot.


Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:37 am
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
Focus and zoom with small motors.

Image

Image

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sciencelo ... 410228935/

https://www.flickr.com/photos/sciencelo ... otostream/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sciencelookers/3766923859/


Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:22 am
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
amongstmyselves wrote:
Hmm. Maybe I've got the microstepping a little high as well. I'll test tomorrow and see how I go.

Steve.


Hi, Steve,
I am running 1/16 micro stepping, BED default value. 12VDC supply. Current ? I gave up trying to measure using the overlarge probes of my multimeter a long time ago :(

Hi, James, no problem with the advertisement, sorry to see the Kickstart is not going too well, hope you get it sorted, neat little unit.
I use Jag35's because they sit quite high on the lens allowing me to use the 20 tooth gear without the motor fouling on the lens casing so the continuous gears are of no use for my application.
Getting out and about is part of the fun James, off to the mountains and valleys of Scotland in May and that unit will be traveling with me :D
Quote:
Awesome rig Mike! Its great that Mantis lets you run the keyframed move at realtime speed. Especially nice that all this can be portable. I'm starting to come to the conclusion that an excuse to get outside, explore, and shoot is at least half the value of this stuff. At least that seems to be all I think about while I build. Hope you enjoy it this Summer!


Best of both worlds with Mantis - can run realtime video work or for quick move set up / verification then switch to time-lapse mode. Also runs at 5VDC so not tied to a mains socket like the DF unit.
Quote:
What is the thing in the foreground? It has a motor, wires and a metal extrusion, so it must be something fun.

That is a part (Roll bar) of a 6 axes unit it runs from DF or Mantis, mains or battery (I switch the stepper drivers).
Unit has been rewired and is suspended from a frame bolted to floor and ceiling since video below was produced. At a push it is "portable" well it can be powered by 12VDC but weighs in at 20-30Kg ;)

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Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:38 am
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
Ooohh - ROLL. Nice one Mike.

I think I am also using 1/16 micro stepping as well. The driver for this motor is a Leadshine Digital driver which I can hook up to some tuning software which gives me a more accurate current reading - apparently. Again I'll try this motor today before I once more take the system down to modify.

Steve

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Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
Canon 5Dm2, 450D, 17-40mm EF f4, 70-300mm L, 50mm f1.8 EF, Custom Intervalometer (UM9 and UM12) and MOCON, Meade LXD75 SN10


Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:15 pm
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
Yes indeed MANTIS is a fantastic piece of gear/software! I too have made myself a small dolly/pan/tilt head that I am planning on taking outside FINALLY, and shoot some time-lapse as soon as the weather gets a wee bit warmer here in Montreal.


Tue Mar 25, 2014 3:11 pm
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Post Re: Mantis - portable with 5axes - workshop test 01
I quickly checked the a lens motor on a Canon 17-40mm lens doing focus and it seemed to be ok. The motor is a 0.5A 1kg/cm motor so if it becomes a problem then I'll upgrade it to a 2kg. Thanks for the info.

Steve R.

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Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
Canon 5Dm2, 450D, 17-40mm EF f4, 70-300mm L, 50mm f1.8 EF, Custom Intervalometer (UM9 and UM12) and MOCON, Meade LXD75 SN10


Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:01 pm
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