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 Improving workflow: Using cineform raw?? How to render? 
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:06 pm
Posts: 11
Post Improving workflow: Using cineform raw?? How to render?
I need some help/input on how to improve my workflow, and alot of people praise the Cineform Studio because it converts raw to "cineform raw".
When I try to convert from raw to cineform raw the program wants me to export to either .avi or .mov.
I want cineform studio to export to a cineform raw file! Isn't that possible? Am I stupid or have I completely misunderstood what Cineform Studio can do?

First off, let me tell you about my current workflow to help you understand my problem:

1. I import raw-files from 5D mark3 or 7D into Lightroom to edit the images. Color, shadows/highlights, contrast etc. etc.
Lightroom makes a .xmp file containing the image information.
--> I like Lightroom because it's easy to use to change the images to how I want them in a fast way.

2. In Adobe After Effects I will import the edited raw files as "image sequence" in order to make the timelapse clip. I resize the sequence to 4096x2304 and make the project 16bit.
I then save the sequence as a project.
3. In Adobe Premiere Pro I will import several projects and add music.

4. Exporting to video: I can't figure out a acceptable way to do this. Either the video is to grainy, or the filesize gets to big. (18gb for a 1.58 sec large 4K video using the Cineform Codec).
Yesterday I tried the DNxHD codec which worked wonderful. But I could not export as 4K, only 1080p. a 18sec clip took 1 hour to render.

So, my question to you on this kind forum; Is there a way make my workflow more efficient?
You may think there is a lot of steps in my workflow, but it litteraly takes me about 1 minute to do step 2. Step 1 takes how long it takes depending on how much image-editing I want to do on the raw-files. Step 3 also takes a while depending on how many clips and getting the music to sync with video.

The real bottleneck is when I try to export to a videofile in Adobe Media Encoder. It just takes a incredibly long time! I have a i7 CPU, Nvidia GTX 660m. 12gb ram.

I'm seriously considering buying the Cineform Studio Professional, but only if it can spit out Cineform Raw files for me to play with in my current workflow...


Wed Aug 28, 2013 2:25 pm
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:12 pm
Posts: 64
Post Re: Improving workflow: Using cineform raw?? How to render?
Are you opening After Effects comps/projects directly in Premiere? Feel free to correct me on this but I think some of us here use Cineform as an "intermediate" codec. So after you make your 4k project/comp you would render a Cineform 444 file out of After Effects. Then in premiere you import that Cineform file into your timeline, size, edit, and render your final from there. Tom suggested this some time ago and you can probably find that thread around on the forum too.


Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:04 pm
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Joined: Thu Feb 24, 2011 5:37 pm
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Location: Córdoba, Argentina
Post Re: Improving workflow: Using cineform raw?? How to render?
I think you must use one of Cineform's programs to do what you want instead of AE.

Take a look at this: http://cineform.blogspot.com.ar/2010/11 ... m-raw.html

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Thu Aug 29, 2013 9:41 pm
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:06 pm
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Post Re: Improving workflow: Using cineform raw?? How to render?
sameyeam wrote:
Are you opening After Effects comps/projects directly in Premiere? Feel free to correct me on this but I think some of us here use Cineform as an "intermediate" codec. So after you make your 4k project/comp you would render a Cineform 444 file out of After Effects. Then in premiere you import that Cineform file into your timeline, size, edit, and render your final from there. Tom suggested this some time ago and you can probably find that thread around on the forum too.


Yes, I import the Lightroom-edited RAW files into After Effects, save as project and import directly into Premiere. This is a fast way to work for me, but the rendering takes for ever.
I guess I have to bite the dust and make individual intermediates of each timelapse-sequence. The downside to this is if I want to tweak the colors or general apparance of the individual sequences...
I will look for Tom's suggestions :)

Question: If I make individual intermediates of each sequence, will this ease the computer workload regarding "scrubbing" and so on?
Will it also make the final rendering go faster?

leandroprz wrote:
I think you must use one of Cineform's programs to do what you want instead of AE.

Take a look at this: http://cineform.blogspot.com.ar/2010/11 ... m-raw.html

Thanks for the link. But it's quite old (2010) so I don't know if it's updated info?


Fri Aug 30, 2013 12:04 am
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:12 pm
Posts: 64
Post Re: Improving workflow: Using cineform raw?? How to render?
Personally I create a full size comp in AE from my 5D raw files for each sequence or clip I create. I do some color grading to this and then make a full size/resolution Cineform file. For me this archives each clip/sequence and provides a full resolution intermediate file to import into Premiere and size 4k, 2k, whatever. In my experience these Cineform files work well inside Premiere and have reasonable render times. You could also dynamic link back to AE for futher color tweaks, noise reduction, effects etc.


Fri Aug 30, 2013 8:11 am
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:06 pm
Posts: 11
Post Re: Improving workflow: Using cineform raw?? How to render?
Thanka for sharing your workflow!:) i will try it out.
Can you also please tell me what rendersettings you use?
In cineform there are different settings, and the one i've tried produced huge files:/

Interesting that you do the image editing in after effects. Ive accustomed to using lightroom to tweak the rawfiles. Do you get the same flexibility in A E?


Fri Aug 30, 2013 1:34 pm
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:12 pm
Posts: 64
Post Re: Improving workflow: Using cineform raw?? How to render?
It was reccomended in another post to use Film Scan 2 and enable 4:4:4 encoding. This will indeed get you a big file. The logic here is to "future proof" for your archive with the highest quality file possible. Some say that they can play this file in a premiere timeline without any rendering. While I haven't been that lucky the render times have been reasonable. I don't have any experience with the other settings so perhaps someone else can weigh in on that.

Regarding the workflow I do start out in Lightroom and get things as good as I can there before importing the raws into AE. For some reason the files seem to flatten out on import so I usually do a curves adjustment to the comp before I render a Cineform file. If you can get comfortable with keyframes in AE it's a very powerful way to make dynamic adjustments across your sequence. I'm still pretty new at this but as a still photographer I'm finding that most anything you could do to an image in photoshop you can do to your video sequence in AE.


Fri Aug 30, 2013 4:31 pm
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Joined: Sun Jan 20, 2013 3:06 pm
Posts: 11
Post Re: Improving workflow: Using cineform raw?? How to render?
Will try to render some today:)
Regarding your flattened files from LR:
Does Lightroom save your RAW settings to .xmp sidecart files? These will be read by After Effects, so you'll see the same edition both places...
in LR: Edit --> Catalog Settings --> Automatically write changes into XMP


Sat Aug 31, 2013 1:08 am
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Joined: Thu Jun 09, 2011 1:12 pm
Posts: 64
Post Re: Improving workflow: Using cineform raw?? How to render?
This flattening I perceive is minimal - it's not from settings that are not being carried over to AE from Lightroom if that's what you are suggesting. This may be due to judging something in motion (AE) vs a static image (LR). In any case for me this is usually a subtle adjustment and sometimes only for part of a clip. If you do much bulb ramping (even if you are using LRTimelapse) you will sometimes get a section in a clip that needs an adjustment. I've found it much easier to keyframe that in AE rather than going back into Lightroom/LRT.

Of course there are a lot of ways to get a good result. This is simply what I have settled on largely from reading on this board and a lot of experimenting. Some solutions may work better for your specific system so it's good not to take the word of any one person here and run some tests of you own.


Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:56 am
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Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:30 pm
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Post Re: Improving workflow: Using cineform raw?? How to render?
Will this help? RAW 2 CF RAW utility


Fri Oct 18, 2013 8:32 pm
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