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 Another stutter issue 
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:03 pm
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Post Another stutter issue
Somewhat tearing my hair out.

New computer. Win 8.1, 64bit. Using premier Elements 11. Am setting my project to 25 or 30 fps, 1080p. Outputting the same. Bringing shots into PE with 'add media'. Have confirmed the sequence of shots is smooth, advancing though one by one, there are no jumps. I dont think I have a camera buffer issue. Whatever settings I choose i cant get away from a varying degree of stutter.

https://vimeo.com/84614707 This is a pretty good version, although i think unacceptable. It can range from this to laughably juddery. (ignore start, and light changes.)

https://vimeo.com/84540351 Ive been staring at these clips for so long, i dont know if they jitter or not any more.

https://vimeo.com/65196296 This is an old shot, seems much smoother.

https://vimeo.com/68240573 Another collection of shots that are smooth.

Any advice of what to fiddle with next would be greatly appreciated.

Using a Chronos Controller which is working perfectly. Rebuilt rail system and is buletproof. Convinced the issue is a fps or other post problem.

Many thanks.


Tue Jan 28, 2014 12:51 pm
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Joined: Wed Nov 25, 2009 1:17 am
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Location: Hindmarsh Valley, South Australia
Post Re: Another stutter issue
I've come across a similar issue with my system where the speed of the movement has been the issue and in reality for me the stutter movement was an illusion. Slowing moves down certainly helped.

Just a thought though, the shot with the bicycle has the camera travelling up and appears fine. Could it be that gravity is helping smooth out some motor movement issue ? Again though this is a slow shot.

Hey if you can find a location to host some low resolution jpegs of one of the sequences then I'd be happy to put them together to see what my results are ?

Steve R

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Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
Canon 5Dm2, 450D, 17-40mm EF f4, 70-300mm L, 50mm f1.8 EF, Custom Intervalometer (UM9 and UM12) and MOCON, Meade LXD75 SN10


Tue Jan 28, 2014 3:31 pm
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Post Re: Another stutter issue
amongstmyselves wrote:
Hey if you can find a location to host some low resolution jpegs of one of the sequences then I'd be happy to put them together to see what my results are ?

Steve R


That would be really helpful. Do you have a Dropbox thingy? Its new to me, but I should be able to work out sharing them that way. Could I take your email to send the folder share invitation?

I was about to try the GoPro EditSoftware.

EDIT. Would 1.2gb be too big to share with Dropbox?

I just altered my computer screen refresh rate from 60hz to 40hz. The effect I am experiencing worsened at that setting.

Thanks.


Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:53 am
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Location: Hindmarsh Valley, South Australia
Post Re: Another stutter issue
I just signed up to Dropbox which can take 2Gb so that would be fine. So send the share to lists@amongstmyselves.com and we'll see what you sequence is like.

Steve R.

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Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
Canon 5Dm2, 450D, 17-40mm EF f4, 70-300mm L, 50mm f1.8 EF, Custom Intervalometer (UM9 and UM12) and MOCON, Meade LXD75 SN10


Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:12 pm
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Post Re: Another stutter issue
Brilliant, thanks Steve.
I've shared the folder with your email address. There is about 150 jpgs in there.
Let me know if you can access them. Im a bit of a dropbox newguy.

the shots in question were at 2 second intervals, over about 14" distance.

Chris.


Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:26 pm
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Post Re: Another stutter issue
Getting the files now. This Dropbox arrangement works really well. I use Google Drive just because I also have Calendar and Email with them. Google Drive also has the shared folder arrangement. This is what the future was meant to be like. I'll have a go once the files come down and see what I can deduce.

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Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
Canon 5Dm2, 450D, 17-40mm EF f4, 70-300mm L, 50mm f1.8 EF, Custom Intervalometer (UM9 and UM12) and MOCON, Meade LXD75 SN10


Wed Jan 29, 2014 2:30 pm
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Location: Hindmarsh Valley, South Australia
Post Re: Another stutter issue
That was quick.

Ok the results are in. Your files are fine. Your mp4 that was uploaded to Vimeo is fine.

Now I presume you are using a slider that moves - stops - exposes - moves ? If not then the answers below are half wrong but from what I see of the individual frames there is no blur.

My conclusions:-

1) Due to the nature of no movement when exposing frames in your shot there is no blur which would naturally happen if you were videoing this shot. This would produce a smoother looking shot. This is a downside of Move Expose Move timelapse.
2) There is some lighting flickering probably due to changes in the environment - clouds, people walking past etc

These two points make it appear as though the movement is not consistent.

3) Vimeo and Youtube never playback smoothly more me and I'd hazard I guess you are in the same boat - I downloaded you Vimeo mp4 via a Google Chrome extension. I will often use my media player attached to the tv to test out movies because even my computer can produce inconsistent playback rates now that it full of rubbish and due for a re-install.

I've been building my multi axis rig for several years now and I often make the mistake of doing test shoots during the day. I live in a almost forested area which causes havoc with the light when timelapsed and find it's best I do them at night in an artificially lit room.

I'd suggest that maybe you replicate this animation at night with some artificial light and you may get a surprise.

OK. So the suggestion from me is that you either need to make slower shots or change the arrangement of the rig to constant moving.

Hope this helps !

Steve R.

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Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
Canon 5Dm2, 450D, 17-40mm EF f4, 70-300mm L, 50mm f1.8 EF, Custom Intervalometer (UM9 and UM12) and MOCON, Meade LXD75 SN10


Wed Jan 29, 2014 3:27 pm
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Another stutter issue
Thanks so much for doing this Steve.

I know there was a bunch of lighting errors in the shots I sent. I was just testing the motion of the rail at the time.
Motion blur. So you think the slight judder is due to the image being too sharp? I am aware of the benefit of motion blur when there is an object in frame that is obviously moving, traffic etc. I usually achieve this with dragging the shutter, so the move, shoot, move system works ok. But, if I read you right, you are saying because of the closeness of the stuff in frame, it might also need motion blur?

As a coincidence I recently made this shot, and set my rig incorrectly, so the camera was moving during the open shutter, not ideal. I left it running as an experiment. This would Produce what you might be suggesting. I found the result just makes the object which is sharp in a test shot, look out of focus in the clip. https://vimeo.com/84347116 (might not be obvious on vimeo. All the background is supposed to be soft, only the generator in front should be sharp, motion blur makes it soft looking.)

I am however happy with your findings, if it means that there is actually nothing wrong with any of my workflow, or kit. Just the way I shoot stuff. I was wondering if I have found the limitations of distance to lens and distance moved on the rail. ie, I cant have an object 8" away, and move 1/2" between shots. Just doesnt work.

Can I ask, what did you stich the clips together with, as a test?

Thanks again. Much appreciated.


Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:00 pm
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Post Re: Another stutter issue
No problem. Hey these are only my observations based on my experiences so please verify with others.

I was suggested that the lighting sort of adds to the stutter look and to do a more scientifically check to see if you have problems you need a static lighting setup.

Yeah I think that if you have something in the foreground you need blur. Personally, I would exposure during the move except when doing stars - don't use it when doing stars unless you want the effect.

The clip you've just mentioned looks great - especially when I download it and play it - it stutters all over the place when I play off the Vimeo page. Smooth as when played via Windows Media Player.

Many years ago when I used a large rig professionally we always did open shutter moves as this is the only way to effectively recreate a real move which includes blur.

Here's an idea for you. Try doing two version of the same scene - like the pics I tried out - one with blur (camera moving during exposure) and one without. See which you prefer.

I use Sony Vegas. Easy to use but has some limitations. Great for audio as well.

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Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
Canon 5Dm2, 450D, 17-40mm EF f4, 70-300mm L, 50mm f1.8 EF, Custom Intervalometer (UM9 and UM12) and MOCON, Meade LXD75 SN10


Wed Jan 29, 2014 5:17 pm
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Another stutter issue
Gotta rush, but do you think you could send me back the clip you put together, so i could run it on my rig? cheers.

cappedup@hotmail.com


Wed Jan 29, 2014 11:27 pm
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Post Re: Another stutter issue
I'm presuming that you got a email regarding a shared folder from Dropbox with the mp4 in it ?

Steve R.

_________________
Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
Canon 5Dm2, 450D, 17-40mm EF f4, 70-300mm L, 50mm f1.8 EF, Custom Intervalometer (UM9 and UM12) and MOCON, Meade LXD75 SN10


Thu Jan 30, 2014 3:14 am
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Joined: Fri Feb 01, 2013 4:03 pm
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Post Re: Another stutter issue
Got it.

Saw a similar issue as you. Playing through the drop box folder, terrible, playing from my desktop in Media Player, ok.

I say, ok. I mean the same result as mine. Which tells me I am outputting the best my footage will do.

I'm going to reel in my ambition when it comes to movement/focus distance. I was pushing the macro element slightly. I have better results at a bigger distance to the subject.

Thanks again for your assistance Steve. Appreciate the time.


Thu Jan 30, 2014 12:28 pm
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Post Re: Another stutter issue
Yeah it's a catch. I would keep with the macro stuff but you'll just have to slow things down a bit. All the best.

_________________
Amongst Myselves - ambient, landscape and space music
Canon 5Dm2, 450D, 17-40mm EF f4, 70-300mm L, 50mm f1.8 EF, Custom Intervalometer (UM9 and UM12) and MOCON, Meade LXD75 SN10


Thu Jan 30, 2014 2:06 pm
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